That is the ultimate problem… no, not the creation of Israel rather the lack of acceptance of the existence of the state of Israel. Hamas has to accept it, Hezbollah will have to accept it, Iran will have to accept it, Syria will have to accept it. It is their singular failure to accept the fact that Israel is a recognized state and will stay a nation state and isn’t going anywhere, that has led to so many problems.

Should Israel have been created in the UN mandated, British administered territories? Should the US have been created on Native American lands? Should Germany have been split? Reunified? These are all esoterical questions that are only argued by people who have no real answers. Having peace means getting a grip on reality. The reality is that Israel exists and isn’t going anywhere. The sooner the parties in that region accept that factoid, the sooner peace will come.

‘We make the rules around here, live with it or suffer the consequences.’ That’ll win them over. :rolleyes:

Wonder how much bloodshed could have been avoided if the western powers can be so accepting of things they don’t like. But nah, its everyone else that should learn to accept the way of things, we just do what we want. :rolleyes:

The west has been sitting nice and cosy on its high peddistal for 50 years telling the arabs to ‘live with it’, wonder how many more years of bloodshed will finally make them realise that things as it is simply unacceptable. And before you start, past negotionations have shown that the state of Israel can exist in the ME in peace with all its neighbours if only Israel was willing to make some painful decisions. It wasn’t, and instead everyone must now suffer a different kind of pain.

You want lasting peace? Get BOTH sides to make meaningful concessions. But thats not going to happen as long as Israel still beleives it can get everything it wants through military power.

What is your opnion the other way around. Does Hezbollah fullfill your claims against the IDF. Does Hezbollah takes care about the civilians around?

I can’t see them doing much to stop Israeli PGMs, but they seems to be wildly popular with the Lebanese population, especially those who are in the south, and who are better judges then the civilians in question themselves?

Did Hezbollah ask the Lebanese people, when starting that war?

Hezbollah didn’t start the war, Israel did when they changed the objective of their military response from rescueing captured soilders to destroying Hezbollah. Anyways, when has any democraticlly elected government ever held a referendum to see if they were to wage war? Hardly a fair criticism.

Did Hezbollah stop that war to free the Lebanese from their inflicted hardship?!

Its not Hezbollah who are keeping people trapped in their homes. If the IDF stopped bombing every vehical on the roads, then the civilians who want to go would be gone without there needing to be any delay in the fighting.

Hezbollah doesn’t have the power to stop the suffering of the Lebanese people short of giving up. But Israel does, and they can relieve the suffering without needing to slow, let alone stop their attack on Hezbollah.

It does not matter whether Hizbollah fires from urban positions.
The mere presence of Hizbollah there makes a legitimate target.
In a war you don’t only go after the assets that shoot at you just right now, you want to kill and destroy ALL the enemies assets WHENEVER and WHEREVER you find them.

Just because there might be Hezbollah fighters in a city does not give you justification to level the entire city district to get them. It is only justified to target urban areas for none active enemy forces if you take every precaution to make sure you only hit the people you are after.

The key word this is ‘find’. No-one has a problem with Israel taking out Hezbollah fighters in urban areas with pin-point strikes. However, it just doesn’t look like they are conduction pin-point hits. The IDF is reckless in its targeting at best, and sadistic at worst. Thats what the world has a problem with.

And the question if Lebanon shouldn’t be a target at all since Hizbollah is a non-state operator: (i) Since Hizbollah is part of the Lebanese “parliament” it is part of the official political spectrum of Lebanon and so part of the official state of Lebanon. That they fire rockets into Israel means that either Lebanon attacks Israel (for years) or there is a civil war in Lebanon with one of the fractions waging war against another state. (ii) If Hizbollah on the other hand is a pure non-state operator Geneva Convention and the conventions of Hague about land warfare do not apply (also because Hizbollah fighters are not always marked as combatants) than they are nothing more than bandidos with everything that implies.
Personally I think (i) is the right answer and ALL of Lebanon is a legit target. And nobody can say I’m pro Israel – usually.

One would do well to remember all the documented instances of Israeli illegal settlers doing violent to local palistinians to drive them out before one makes too much a meal out of trying to make a link between Hezbollah and the Lebanese government to justify the targeting to civilian infrastructure.

If Israel is making war on Lebanon as well as Hezbollah, then they are lying to the world. If they are only after Hezbollah, then attacking civilan infrastructure that has nothing to do with Hezbollah is a war crime. Plain and simple.

Also, even if you take ii), that still does not make it ok to target civilians, or be reckless in targeting civilian areas. The Geneva Convention still applies to Israel in the treatment of civilian non-combatants no matters who they fight, especially in the targting of non-combat areas where the ‘human shield’ excuse is completely irrelevent.

BBC news 24 have run a similar report a couple of days ago. They were interviewing IDF troops who just came back from the front and they stated that anti-tank missiles were causing them the most casaulties (the unit being interviewed lost one member to a missile attack with another two badly injured).

Hezbollah are dug in pretty comprehensively. They have tunnels connecting many of the houses. They use these tunnels to infiltrate back into positions the IDF thought they clear and also to loure IDF troops into buildings; Hezhollah fighters go out through the tunnels while other fighters shoot missiles into the building the IDF just went it. The unit also talked of fighters coming out of fake walls or floors to attack them from a few feet away. It wouldn’t be a stretch to assume that Hezbollah would also use suicide bombers in such ways, and I suspect the IDF units that encountered such suicide attacks would not be able to give interviews about them.

to clarify, Japan has made apologies and regret from both Koizumi and the Emperor himself. Korea waived reparations when Park Chung Hee was leader, while China waived it at the intragovernmental level in the 70s. Other countries that suffered like Vietnam, PI, etc got compensation. But the key problem is the text books and the shrine visits.

The Japanese ‘apologies’ were little more then negoticated lip survice in the eyes of the vast majority of Asians. Its one thing to grugingly say sorry and an entirely differently thing to say it like you truely mean it. The German effects are 200% sincere and comprehensive. They were truely shocked and appolled at what was done in their name and have taken every opportunity they can to make amends.

Looking at the text book issues, the shrine visits, the pettiness of the Japanese courts in the treatment of ‘comfort women’ and foreign civilians enslaved to work for their war effort etc and you can see the shallowness and emptiness of Japanese ‘apologies’. Such things would not only have never been allowed to happen in Germany, but would have caused public outrage it any German politition ever tried it.

The shrine visits and text book disputes etc are all symptims of something much darker and serious, and that is the true obstical to normal relations between Japan and its neighbours. But anyways, I digress.

Back on topic, looks like Japan is gearing up to bargin for the F22.

Ideally, the Israelis could probably use a lot of 250-lb SDBs instead of heavier bombs that they have been using if only to minimize collateral damage.. why use a sledgehmmer when a tack hammer will get the job done in most instances?

Pin-point strikes are only a viable option where targets can be easily…pin-pointed. Don’t think Hezbulla fighters are obliging enough to stand out in the open with big crosshair placards telling the IDFAF where to drop their bombs.

There are quiet grumbles that the IDF are thinking that since the people in the areas where Hez’ are hiding are overwhelmingly supportive of Hez’, it doesn’t matter all that much if civilians are killed, since they are ‘on their side’ anyways.

A pat on the head and a list of chores. :rolleyes: