The Avionics are more modern in a comparative sense.

MadRat starts to touch upon the problems with restarting F-22 production, it is not impossible but it would be complex and expensive! It isn’t just a case of pulling the jigs out of storage and restarting production. Lets look at some key issues:

1) Personnel! When the program was ended some personnel would of been moved onto other programs, some onto other jobs, some laid off and some into retirement. Not just within the prime contractor but across all the sub contractors as well. So whilst some could be brought back onto the program many would have to be recruited and trained! Considering some long lead items were made many years ago there might well be no experience in their assembly requiring prime and sub contractors to relearn skills.

2) Subcontractors! To make the F-22 attractive to Congress sub components and structures were contracted out across the US. As mentioned in the previous post some of those assemblies might of been made years ago as long lead items. With so many sub contractors some have left the industry whilst others have merged. The whole supply chain would have to be rebuilt! Some subcontractors might not even want to return to manufacturing sub components and assemblies due to the costs of restarting or changes in priorities.

3) Obsolescence! Many components, assemblies and structures are quite simply obsolete! Whilst the F-22 is the cutting edge of fighter technology it’s systems are frozen in time. There are better ways of doing things now and any restart of production would benefit from that. Which leads me to…

4) Parts and materials availability! In the end some components, assemblies and structures will just not be available meaning new ones will have to be designed taking account of newer technologies! Problem is that tends to have a knock on meaning things that could be put back into production as is still have to be redesigned.

5) Is it worth it? Once you have gone through all that it leads you to two conclusions a) With all that you might as well design a new type or b) Buy more F-35.

In the end it might sound like a nice idea in a party conference but the realities of the proposition point in another direction!

I agree she’s given a nice interior. As for the rest of your statement: seeing as she was delivered without functioning propulsion (not nececcarily without engines!), whether or not this was reinstated (or possible to reinstate) was a legitimate issue. Especially since propulsion is internal, and for a long time there was no visual evidence of any changes in propulsion. Prior to sailing, only exhaust plumes suggested there was (we’ve seen no pics of machine room etc.)

You missed my later comment 😉

She has a very handsome level of interior fit out, and to think people here on this forum said with such certainty that it wouldn’t even be able to move out under its own power!

I didn’t realise you were a Pastafarian Badger1968! 😀

May his noodly appendage touch you! Ramen!

I am with BlackArcher on this, the Indian Navy is way to far down the path with INS vikramaditya. Even with another delay they are better off accepting it then pulling the plug considering the infrastructure work done to accept it.

With hindsight going to a European yard for a new build would of been the quicker and cheaper solution with the added advantage that it could of acted as a basis for the follow on IAC class. DCNS had capacity and were apparently pushing hard, an adapted version of the conventionally powered CdG follow on designwould of suited. As an interim measure until that carrier was ready a direct purchase of one of the Invincible class, something the UK MOD were hinting as acceptable would of allowed INS Viraat to retire.

But done is done now! INS Viraat is a token capability as it stands and pilots or already shifting to the Mig-29K to stop now would only cause more problems.

As for suggestions of going for Varyag instead, remember it was an incomplete hulk sitting in an Ukrainian shipyard. She was not for sale to be completed as a warship and many considered her beyond economic completion. That China was prepared to fudge the whole end use issue (and still do) and actually complete her is amazing. Then again they appear to have gutted much of the hull and I doubt we will ever know how much money they burnt to complete the ship. It appears to be a money no object project for the China navy and Dalian had the advantage over Sevmash of suitable dry dock facilities and gantry cranes.

Whilst I fully understand that the ship was designed around steam plant based propulsion, considering the time and money burned along with the known issues might they not have been better off gutting it and using gas turbines instead?

Its not as if she needs steam to run any catapults, the main barrier I see is they would of had to use foreign gas turbine sets as Russia is rather behind in that respect.

But so what? It will be heavier (even perhaps overweight in comparison), use less fuel-efficient powerplants, use two powerplants to double it’s chances for problems, require more maintenance, fly with more drag, have half as many chances to use weapons if the doors to the bay fail, generate more heat at any given flight envelope, have inferior electronics, less stealth, and confined to use less efficient weapons.

Ah so have SAC already given you full access to the aircraft and its development program data so you can make all those conclusions MadRat! :rolleyes:

Come on guys again! We know next to nothing about the details of this aircraft, considering many of the systems and performance aspects of far older aircraft in Chinese service are still a mystery to us (the J-8 can still launch a thousand argumentative threads on the forum!!!) such certainty is rather silly.