Primarily because it is a point defence system designed to be the last line of missiles before the cannon have a go.
Outer layer: F35.
Medium to outer layer: Sea Viper.
Inner layer to Medium layer: Sea Cepter.
Point defence: RIM-116.
Last ditch defence: CIWS cannon.
Each system has a nice overlap. Give me the choice and I would prefer enabling technology like CEC to be installed on the fleet then RIM-116 on the carriers.
CEC would give a quantum leap on RN capability by networking or the systems together.
In effect I regard RIM-116 on QE class as an idle nice to have rather then anything I think seriously about as the CIWS canon on the carriers overlaps the engagement range of Sea Cepter. Also we mustn’t forget the soft kill capabilty of chaff rockets, something shown to be effective during the Falklands war.
On an idle side note I remember having a conversation with one of the maintainers of HMS Illustrious Goal Keeper cannon at a Portsmouth navy day several years ago. In his opinion if you got to the point where you had to rely on his cannon he would already be sitting in the life boat ready to cast off! Best policy is take out the launch platform and beyond that try spoof or engage the missile as far out as possible.
Ah well remember the Invincible class was only meant to operate ASW helicopters at inception. Fitting Sea Dart makes sense in that context.
If I was fitting some point defence missiles to the QE class my choice would be RIM116 rather then CAMM.
Well its true that the Rafale and the Typhoon both cleared the technical and tactical evals and the final selection was based on cost only. But reports suggest that the IAF preferred the Rafale more , which means that the Rafale clearly was the topper in the IAF evaluations.
And there reports saying exactly the same for Typhoon. Too bored to carry on this sillyness.
Rafale got the contract…fantastic! Without it the line would of closed pretty soon. Life is too short but I am fed up with the petty slights on Typhoon.
(I admit that I rate the Rafale higher than the Typhoon .)
We ‘re not gonna start again a pissing contest but what a 2020 Typhoon can do a 2020 Rafale can ‘t ? To start with , I contest the rumor that the Typhoon is a better AtoA platform than the Rafale .Cheers .
Thats alright I rate the Typhoon higher then the Rafale…cosmic Karma is maintained.:D
(P.S. I contest the rumor that the Rafale is a better AtoA platform than the Typhoon…that would just be crazy talk…)
I know Nicolas10 crazy isn’t it! Sweden will be swimming in spare Gripen at this rate.
I’m half surprised that nobody hasn’t snapped up those surplus A/B Gripen. Even without the modifications SAAB offer to make it NATO compliant its a darn tasty aircraft for the price and low mileage.
Well in theory a Radar missile can make a non emitting attack as well if it has a data link.
Considering the modifications for CAMM extend ASRAAMS range, improves agility and adds a radar seeker plus I presume a data link it could be a very interesting BVR option.
The Typhoon is also out because they don ‘t need a “second best” to their 126 Rafales ..
Now now! Both aircraft met the technical needs of the competition and Typhoon was found to be better in certain technical areas whilst the Rafale in others. Don’t try and spin it otherwise the contest WAS VERY CLEAR on this…the final part of the contest was cost based only!
So far people have been fairly cordial about the result don’t sink it now with silly comments like that.
Well the RN have done without a self defence missile capabilty before on the carriers. The Sea Cat was next to useless and Sea Dart was pulled off the Invincible class as it took up useful space.
Its a case of nice to have but not at the cost of something else, in a hot war the carrier will have a goal keeper frigate/destroyer close to hand. I have no doubt room could be found for a few launch cells but I would rather they put the money towards other things. Fof
for example ensuring a replacement for Sea King ASAC.7 will enhance the air defence capabilities of the carrier more then fitting some self defence missiles.
Indeed, actual range will be slightly off anyhow. We won’t know anyhow as it will be classified as these things always are.
The amusing thing about this is the RAF are getting a serious upgrade for ASRAAM paid for by the Army and Navy.
On a side note adding the RADAR seeker to ASRAAM might make an interesting budget option to METEOR in the BVR role.
Really? Something they seem to be good at in past competitions isn’t anything to do with sore losing. Thats their problem, not mine, and I’m not the only one that thinks this.
I’m rather keen on military aviation and military aviation only, I don’t share the same amount of interest in civil or space aviation, so in general, it’s just something I follow in my spare time and my heart lays in many other interests than this that I find way, way more interesting. I’m not like some of those we come across on here and other forums that seem to live to be sore and troll no matter what the outcome is. And as a keen chap interested in Typhoon, well hard luck for it in India. It doesn’t affect me nor my life style and I’m most certainly not going lose my appetite, go into depression or lose any sleep over the decision. I have way too much of a life to be like that.
Indeed I am much of the same thinking, no point losing sleep over it. In some ways Rafale better matches the criteria of the competition anyhow with its more mature ground attack capability and weapon system commonality with the Mirage 2000. You win some you lose some and if Oman comes through as it should Typhoon has chalked up some reasonable sales on the export market. Anyhow what I care about most is UK PLC and with the recent Hawk order one can’t complain.
Isn’t the C27J Australias first choice for a Caribou replacement. If the price is right I could see some going to them.
Another country that could benefit from a small purchase is the UK it would be a superior choice to the UOR purchased BAe 146-200 and a very handy special forces C130K replacement.
Yep sad exercise in all respects made even more trajic by how it mirrors with what happened with the Caribou during the Vietnam war. Wonder how much it would cost to do a zero time overhaul on the C-23 Sherpa?
Another idea, could the US Army contract out the requirement to operate a small C27J class transport to a PMC?
Using a PMC pushes the USAF out of the equation.
Probably:D
The winner has been selected that’s for sure ( IMO,its the RAFALE)
MOD must have been vacillating between fund raising and cancellation.
The winner has been selected that’s for sure ( IMO,its the TYPHOON)
MOD must have been vacillating between fund raising and cancellation.
Just making sure the thread is fare and balanced…:D
Russia is much more generous in transferring technology & overhauls. otherwise how Iran can maintain Su-24MK/MIG-29 with related missile. Missiles like R-73 have shelf life. and RD-33 earlier versions is not known for long life.
http://www.uskowioniran.com/2011/09/fadaeeyan-e-harim-e-vellayat-iii-5.htmlanswer is much simpler than that. Generations of officers in Russian foreign and defence have pro-arab views from 1950s. and this limit cooperation with iran. and Iran may not have that much competent people left to absorb technology of modern Flanker.
Hmmm no I have to disagree, I think my analysis and reasons are more correct then yours. I do conceed that a more pro Arab view amongst the Russians has a degree of logic to it but Iran certainly has people capable of asorbing the technology.