FedaykinI agree with Jonesy a global presence frigate like the Thetis class would be very good for the Royal navy. At 3500 tonnes its roomy enough, it has a gun for NGS and a reasonable sensor fit for role. Its modern diesels give it the range and speed to keep up with other fleet units if needed and chug around the rest of the time. It has a hanger for Lynx and the space for mission modules to be installed. The only thing I would add is a capacity for a last ditch air defence missile to be added. For me that should be the bolt on SeaRAM, its 11 cell launcher is enough for self defence and its autonomous. You could even leave it off most of the time and bolt it on when required. As it uses Phalanx as its basis the current knowledge of the RN is leavered in. In a San Carlos type scenario its gun for NGS and SeaRAM would be highly useful protecting the amphibious ships.
FedaykinRemember the little 1,000 ton Flower class corvettes that did precisely that, back in WWII? There were times when the weather was so bad that the big fleet destroyers had to turn back, but the corvettes were able to keep going.
Seakeeping is about a lot more than just size.
Yes but the Flower class was a stop gap measure! Whilst very sea worthy it had horrible handling characteristics in heavy seas. Crewing them tended to be cold, wet and miserable. They ended up carrying twice the crew then intended who slept in any corner they could find. In those dark days the largely reserve officer and merchant crews accepted those living conditions, that isn’t going to happen now. Modern sailors want bunks and iPod docks not a hammock! The other issue with Corvettes is whilst you can cram on highend weapons it tends to restrict the upgrade capacity of the vessel. Of course with modern technology and lean manning things are better and its worth noting that the Turkish MILGEM is nowhere as much compromised as the similar size but older Type 21 Amazon/Tariq class. Of course when you get to the 2000 tonne plus displacement class the fine line between Corvette and Frigate is blurred. Also note that the Turkish navy intend to use the MILGEM in the med close to her bases rather then in the middle of the North Atlantic.
FedaykinWell this video of a far larger destroyer pretty much answers the question:
45 seconds in, imagine that in a Corvette!
FedaykinA couple of the Royal Navy’s high profile missions – anti-piracy off Somalia and the Caribbean Patrol – have recently been carried out by RFAs with helicopters and RHIBs embarked.
Well that happened for two reasons firstly the UK didn’t have anything else to do it and secondly in that narrow role it isn’t a bad idea. On the other hand if you want to go to war against a peer or near peer rival sending the RFA in to fight with a few helicopters and RHIBs is hardly going to end in glory.
FedaykinOf course Lewis Page isn’t the only one to get confused with the whole Corvette thing. Yes you can put pretty much the same armament as a frigate on a smaller Corvette but then you need to look at how they are used and who uses them. By in large they are operated by navies who don’t do blue water operations and they keep them in coastal waters close to a base. This allows fairly basic crew facilities to be installed as the crewman will mainly sleep in barracks. Also means you can ditch the hanger as the helicopter will operate from the base and purely use the landing deck as a place to refuel or transfer personnel. Finally a Corvette can have a bare minimum air defence capability as they will operate under land based fighter cover. If you want to do anything out of area then you need something the size of a frigate or destroyer.
FedaykinOf course those rubber suits will get you into some very exclusive London clubs along with a gas mask…
FedaykinCertainly the airframes slung around by the water are probaby write offs and probably the ones flooded with muddy salt water.
As for the nuclear issue, maybe the RAF will dust off those air sampling pods and send out a VC-10 again.
FedaykinTrue I forgot that!
Still I would rather a new builf for the UK then the less then ideal Polar Bjorn.
FedaykinPlus of course Canada have already dismissed the Type 26/GCS idea already after the Brit Ambassador tried to plug it in the Canadian media.
Yes Jay Paxton could of been a bit more diplomatic about it all, but dangle the prospect of the UK buying an Ice Breaker plus through life support from Canada might change the tune of Canadian ship builders…
FedaykinI could see this as a good fit for the Canuck Navy or for Coast Guard service in Alaska. It is not a good fit for the Royal Navy. Why? While Svalbard and the departed Endurance are both 1A1 icebreakers, they are designed for very very different missions. Endurance was a scientific-type icebreaker designed to support Antarctic exploration missions. Svalbard was designed for offshore patrol in ice filled waters.
Actually Polar Circle/Endurance was designed to support scientific operations in the Artic Ice fields. Based in Norway she was meant to go for 3 month cruises in the Artic circle with all the scientists and gear. She was not designed for the type of Antartic operations the UK used her for and every trip south through warmer climbs followed by a rather long period of operation by a crew who were not entirely familier with her systems was taking its toll! There is some rather dark comments about her on Rumration in respect of keeping her serviceable!
Actually I am starting to think we should look at seriously purchasing a variant of the Canadian AOPS. They are planning to build 6-8 of them, well add a number 9 to the build plan for the UK. Have it built in Canada, they will be pleased as it will reduce the overall program cost for themselves. In respect of maintenance rather then send it back to Portsmouth every year, send it back to Canada where they built it. Also solves training issues which was a major point in the investigation about the Endurance accident. Personel who are to be deployed to maintain the vessel get sent to Canada for training. It would also very much sweaten the idea of Canada joining the Type 26 program. In the meantime do a straight lease of the less then ideal Polar Bjorn until the new ship is ready.
FedaykinWell there is a good chance that Australia will take a Bay class LSD. Should be an excellent compliment to the Canberra class LHD.
FedaykinWith new and advanced aircraft being seen as redundant, whilst still being highly needed in many different situations, what are the odds of a private company purchasing the aircraft cheaply and selling there services back to the R.A.F or other allied airforce’s when they are needed? I’m talking about sentinal in the main, its gonna be difficult to sell them as is, and i should think it will cost anyone so much to convert them into anything else, new aircraft may as well be bought. Obviously with classified technology involved it would probably have to be one of the companies that developed the systems, but i see what could be a good business deal here, reminding me of the shorts Belfasts that were surplus to requirements, but the air force kept chartering them from heavylift after they left service.
Yep the very clever government plan of getting rid of the Belfasts totally floored by an actual tactical need for them! They then proceed to lease them for more then it would of cost to keep them in service!
FedaykinWhat is clear to me over the last few days is the Western nations are starting to realise that if Gadaffi stays in power even of a split country they will have serious problems. They will be left with a highly angry, unstable and revenge minded dictator in power! Who knows what he could get up to? Problem is with Iraq positive military action is rather out of fashion these days…
FedaykinYes the irony is certainly not lost on me…another capability to be dropped that we now need due to a current crisis!
The signal intelligence capabilities of Nimrod R1 would be vital in the Libya situation as it will give us an actual picture of what is happening with his forces. Actually the Raytheon Sentinel R1 would also appear to be ideal in this scenario with its SAR/MTI radar! You could fly it off the coast of Libya at 40,000ft and look at what his ground forces are up to!
I don’t care what the government say, scrapping new in service aircraft like the Sentinel R1 is shocking especially as they have been using it A-stan which puts paid to the concept that its radar is somehow unsuitable for that theatre of operation.
FedaykinF-22 pilot: Libyan pilots are ignoring our requests to stop bombing and its too expensive to use my weapons system & Obama is a bit of a wet…
Gaddafi: There was no CAP aircraft on our radar, so we took advantage of it and bombed my people!
Typhoon pilot: *sigh* FFS I’ll do it!Ah the disadvantages of “stealth”. :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:
Actually makes me think of what happened at the end of Allied Force. The UK got the army ready at the border to go into Kosovo then were forced to wait as the Americans suddenly decided that they wanted in and sent the Marine Corp to do a glorious beach landing. Whilst we were messing around waiting to allow the Yanks to have their moment the Russians were able to cobble together a force themselves and send them into Kosovo.
http://www.hmforces.co.uk/Training/articles/3682-the-kosovo-conflict—part-three
Same as GW1 if there are aircraft to be shot down by western nations then America is very keen to have made in the USofA on the airframe and can throw its weight around to ensure that happens.
Which is what I fear would happen again, European nations will start to prepare for a no fly zone doing exactly what America always complains about and take care of problems close to home then at the last moment decide it wants in and use its clout to get its way!
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