I wonder who Malta will get in to make those Rocket pods safe, I doubt the AFM have the knowledge.

So in conclusion, to suggest that the F-117 shootdown was a fluke or that other stealth targets could not have been targeted is ridiculous!

Definition of the word fluke:

1. an accidental stroke of luck
2. any chance happening

Only one F117A has been shot down in its entire active service career! I say again: 1, once, one, uno, een, viens, ein and what ever number system you want to use!

One of a type being shot down after thousands of missions over several military actions is the very definition of FLUKE! and to think otherwise is ridiculous!

Nobody is denying that stealth types can’t be tracked or engaged, the issue is with people myth making years after the event!

This brings up a number of points.

Considering the RAF intended a 2025ish OSD for GR4 I wonder whats going on?!

Firstly: do they feel they have enough trained WSO for the next ten to fifteen years, that is a big question mark as it does depend on the good will and future plans of the current WSO.

Secondly: or do they intend to start using pilots on the back seat role. Not as crazy as it first seems a number of other air forces do that (and the RAF for that matter have done it), its happened before so I don’t see why they couldn’t do it again. It would also retain more trained pilots in anticipation of a future single seater only fleet.

Thirdly: or do they intend to start drawing down the GR4 fleet from 2015. In that by offering it as a sacrifice at the next SDSR they get more F35C or a more controlling part of that pie.

Fourthly: A mix of all of the above…!

Food for thought.

Just stick an RB211 each side, simple! 🙂

Ahhh G-AXLR! When the RAF got her back she was found to have a twisted airframe.:eek: She never saw service again:

http://www.vc10.net/History/Individual/XR809.html

As for keeping the VC-10 in service, whilst the airframe is very tough the problem is the avionics and engines. We are talking a 1960’s vintage British aircraft. Many of her systems were made by companies that are not even around anymore. To keep the current fleet alive involves cannibalization and refurbishment of parts from old airframes. The same goes for the engines which are long out of production. To qualify new engines would be time consuming, costly and require the support of the type certificate holder BAE Systems. Whilst Rolls Royce and BAE Systems have been happy sucking up payments to keep the old fleet going, refurbishing them with new avionics and engines involves no real financial benefit for them considering the very limited number of airframes.

Now I’m sure people will bring up KC-135, B707 and DC-8 refurbishment and re-engining but that in many ways is a different proposition. There were far more of those three types built and the underwing podded engine design allows for a far easier upgrade process. Finally there was a far more universal market for upgrades of those types vs just the RAF for VC10.

I’m sorry Pegon but do you have some kind of comprehension issue?

The F117A was operated for nearly ten years after Kosovo/Allied force (and is still being used for trials work!). Its retirement was due to the cost of operating a legacy type and the desire by the USAF to promote the F22 as a multirole strike fighter. It was nothing to do with the one off shoot down of S/N 82-0806! The shoot down was a fluke and mainly due to poor pre mission planning in sending the aircraft down the same strike corridor. The USAF did not significantly change F117A tactics after the event and the aircraft operated within strike packages that included jammer support from the beginning of the campaign through to the end. This is clearly STATED by pilots of the F117A who flew it during that campaign! Up until Kosovo/Allied force the F117A operated for NO LOSS! One shoot down does not invalidate the tactics that had worked up to that point and for the rest of the campaign (and the two further campaigns it operated in).

There is always a risk when operating an aircraft over a hostile air defence environment and the F117A is not excluded from that. The USAF always expected that the F117A could be shot down at some point, it was actually expected to happen during GW1 and that it didn’t was a rather nice surprise. That radars can track it is well known and is not particularly surprising, Royal Navy Type 42 did it during GW1 with the 1022L radar. On the other hand it has shown itself to be highly surviveable for its entire service career!

Will you please stop perpetuating the myth that the F117A was retired due to the single shoot down during Kosovo/Allied Force!

Your opinion is seriously flawed by the fact that USAF decided to retire its F-117 fleet after the Kosovo war.

:confused:

The F117A was retired nearly ten years after Kosovo/Allied Force. It also participated in Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom.

It was a nice little display.but would have been better with wingtip smokers.

Actually with so many Smokewinders being used at the show I wonder if Sanders Smoke Technologies had a company representative there.