But what would be the point? UK isn’t going to operate F35B now.

Probably just a technicality as the aircraft was in build, I would think it will be swapped for an F35C during a future production Lot.

The UK is going to try and shift F35 purchase as far as possible to the right now.

My expectation is that the Poseidon will be ordered in about two-three years time. The big mistake was not ordering it in the first place, but the RAF does like to have big bomb bays, so useful in a land based tactical environment!

Regards

Errrrrrr? How could they order something that didn’t exist?!

Contract for the MRA4 (or Nimrod 2000 as it was called until they realised that the program was slipping so much that it was an embarasing name) was awarded in 1996, contract for P8 was awarded in 2004.

The Nimrod MRA4 program had already been going for several years by the time Boeing proposed the 737-800 based solution that became the P8.

Frankly I am getting fed up with people suggesting the UK should of ordered the P8 instead, some simple research would show this was impossible!

Well as I said my opinion is disjointed, I don’t think the Chinese see themselves in a race. What we know is they have come leaps and bounds the last twenty years and we need to give a bit more respect to their aerospace industry. It isn’t a throw back to the fifties anymore and they are showing progressive innovation. What is clear to me is they are operating to their own timetable and have an interesting policy of innovation combined with not reinventing the wheel.

Each aircraft generation needs new tooling, new building technologies and new lathes and mills.
Each new prototype has to pass at least 5-6 years of tests.
China is not in that stage, they can make the Su-33 because the original tooling they got for the Su-27SK does not change too much from the one used on the Su-33.
The F-22 does not use the same tooling to build the F-15 or F-14 niether the T-50 uses the same tooling used on the Su-27.
The same applies to engines even the newest Al-41 or 117S are not exactly using the same tooling used for the Al-31F.
Copying the F-22 is not just making a copy of the aircraft in CG or in a wooden mock up, the Chinese are not going to use the same technologies used on the J-10 or J-11B on a fifth generation.
The Su-35BM is a good example it uses a different engine and avionics than the original Su-27 but basicly it is a generation behind the T-50, you can not make the Su-35BM a fifth generation fighter unless you make a new aircraft.

The only way china can do the leap is by direct input from the F-22 or T-50, the Indians in that way are closer to get some key technologies than the Chinese but unless china get the techology from Russia or the US they won`t make the leap in 10 or 15 years, China might be flying a fifth generation by 2015 or 2018 but now it is hardt to tell just by a rumour of a couple of fans .

Lots of nice explanation there (nothing I don’t know by the way!) but why is it directed at me avionesg?

All I was stating is development in the WS-10A turbofan program will help development of future fighters. The WS-10A configuration once they have managed to mature it is exactly the same as the GE F110 which is potentially a thirty thousand pound thrust class engine.

If you want to compare Chinese and Russian aerospace industrys my personal opinion is slightly disjointed. In one respect I feel there are many areas where Russia is certainly ahead of China, for example they can make a reliable high thrust engine, airframe materials and Radar. But there are areas where China has parity and even in some respects moved beyond for example Cockpit avionics and systems.

The thing is China doesn’t particularly see itself in a race with anyone since the mid 80’s the Chinese aerospace industry has been going through a rapid modernisation for domestic and millitary reasons. Actually in my opinion the main reason why there has been such a jump in the quality and inovation of the Chinese aerospace industry for the last the last fifteen years is the explosion in education. Chinese universities are pumping out high quality graduates now giving their aerospace industry the inovation focused workforce you need for high end R&D.

But in the end this takes time! I’m sure we will see a Chinese stealth fighter in the end but I’m not expecting anything for a while.

No point whatsoever getting the T45 for the Fleet Air Arm, the UK will do (well actually is already doing) what everybody else does and send pilots to the US to qualify for CAT and Trap operations.

Ridiculous. The whole point of this change to the F35C is to enable cross decking with France. Green Dave announced that the F35B could not cross deck with the French as if it was some scandal he had just uncovered. Are you surprised that literally days after this announcement, Dave and Sarkozy were signing a treaty to enable the “sharing” of carriers? Clearly this would be impossible if our carrier operated only STOVL aircraft. Do you think the treaty text was written in the days after the SDSR? Whatever the pros and cons of going to CATOBAR for the CVF, the underlying reason was politics, and the desire of “Eurosceptic” Dave to tie Britain’s armed forces into a European defence structure. Do you remember any of this being discussed at the General Election, the one time we serfs get to actually have our say? Me neither. Dave is a typical Tory grandee I’m afraid, and has no interest in consulting the little people.

Of course the irony being the F35B can cross deck onto the CdG! As proven when the QinetiQ VAAC harrier operated off the Cdg to test the rolling landing concept:

Its the Rafale that couldn’t cross deck onto a STOVL carrier!

Well you live and learn.

Out of curiosity anyone knows who in America builds the IFLOLS deck landing sight. I can’t see for the UK redesigning the wheel on that one and it will be an off the shelf purchase.