There are reasons why nobody has built a C-17 tanker. It’d fill the same niche as a 767 or A330 tanker, but at higher price, higher operating cost, & with less performance. Nor would it be suitable for some of the roles of a KC-130 or A400M, e.g. refuelling helicopters, or forward basing to support small detachments. An A400M with hoses would be a useful asset in the Falklands, for example.

Horses for courses, & AAR isn’t the C-17s niche.

Actually I would say the A400M would be a better solution for the Falklands station then the a330. It has a similar fuel offload to the VC10 and would release what is a strategic tanker like the a330 to other jobs. It would also be useful in the maritime patrol role down south.

Unfortunately it looks like the PFI contract prevents the RAF purchasing the hose pods for the A400M. If we can’t ditch the PFI agreement now I do wonder why it can’t be ammended to allow the pods to be purchased under the lease agreement so they are technically not RAF property but rather supplied by the tanker consortium.

I’m taking this too far I know. I highly recommend:

We don’t know ROE’s. We don’t know what the aircraft were flying with. We don’t know what sensors were degraded or operating in a lower mode (French military is very picky about Spectra operation in foreign territory, and presumably the same goes for other operators of the Typhoon). A HUD kill shot is always fun to crow about and rub in your opponents faces, but how much more are they beyond that?

Indeed this is the nub of it, we just don’t have any context with these pictures.

No ROE, what were the defined capabilities, not sure what aircraft HUD it is and for that matter were they even in a dog fight? Maybe the Typhoon has just got out of one scrap and has blindly flown right into the crosshairs of another fighter. For all we know the Typhoon could be transiting to a training area or even in the circuit and somebody decided to switch to guns and have a laugh by taking a picture…we don’t know.

Also Rafale in an exercise will get gun kills on Typhoon as will all sorts of fighter types (famously a Jag … Ok with a missile), that is a good outcome in respect of training as it gives pilots more to learn. The point of training of this type is to introduce pilots to the fog of war, actually the most recent edition of AFM has an excellent report by an F16 agressor pilot about their role within training.

Its worth noting many an F15 has been shot down (not for real:D) by agressor F5’s a type vastly inferior in all respects. Does that mean the F15 is a lousy fighter…nope within the ROE of the training its to be expected.

This is what frustrates me about forum conversations about second hand information from un-named pilots of photos with no context, unless we were really there its dangerous to draw any real conclusions.

Also note that all involved airforces don’t really like to switch on all the different magic systems like jammers EW equipment when playing against each other, usually as already stated they like to agree a generic (effectively make believe) performance profile prior to the exercise. Which makes me wonder how even the mighty F22 would perform in the real world.

My opinion is with the current state of jamming electronics fighters are going to be forced back to the merge rather then BVR combat into the range frankly lethal late generation IR missiles. Which takes me back to why I think this type of training is vital, if our fighters are being forced back into WVR combat with late generation IR missiles its like getting into a gunfight in a phone booth.

So I think we all need to take a chill pill and feel some pleasue that our airforces field some of the most advanced aircraft ever to fly and they can afford (for the moment) to send them on realistic training exercises!

The problem is that there are already a number of off-the-shelf solutions, from BAE System’s own American subsidiary, not to mention OTO Melara. The merits of upgrading the existing Mk8 to a 155mm mounting are rather limited and the export prospects are non-existent. Given the recent track record of the British defence sector, I have a hard time believing that a supposedly “simple” 155mm naval gun will be available on time, or on budget, or even at all. Do we need to be reminded of the 25mm ADEN cannon that never quite made it to service?

Well the prototype has been built and tested with minimal trouble. They are now ready to move on.

Both 4.5 mounts and the 155mm barrels are available.

Whilst you are right that there are some very good off the shelf solutions available it does involve sending the work overseas. I think its worthwhile maintaining the capability to do it ourselves.

Also a number of navies do operate ships using this mount so its not a total export right off. In respect of new build some countries may be attracted to buying a gun system that uses the same ammunition as their land artillery.

If the MOD does nothing then the skills go as well.

Pak-FA first flight?:confused:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20091218/tod-giant-pyramid-ufo-hovers-over-moscow-870a197.html

Radar mast insalled on the aircraft carrier Varyag

Put up a mast for Christmas.

A radar mast has been constructed on the aircraft carrier Varyag according to latest photos taken from Dalian. Simultaneously, the same mast can also been seen at an “office building” in Wuhan housing the Type 381 3D “Top Plate” search radar.(here)

Makes you wonder what type of Christmas ornaments they will put up this year, doesn’t it?

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2009/12/put-up-mast-for-christmas.html

Well well well! Its exactly the same size, shape and in the same location as the mock up. Good find Tango!

Ainsworth has stated that Merlin and C130 will plug the capability gap.

First of all the Merlin might be a fine ASW platform but it doesn’t have the area capability Nimrod has.

Secondly the c130 whilst it has been used for Maritime survellance from the Falklands hasn’t got the specialist comms kit the Nimrod has meaning a massive fall in capability in respect Search and Rescue Coordination. Also totally ignores the FACT that the UK C130 fleet is overworked already so how is it going to pick up the slack…

Also haven’t the MR2 just gone through an expensive refit to fix key safety issues until the MRA4 enters service…so money wasted there then!

Finally the Nimrod has played an invaluable roll in over land ISTAR.

Their will be no further reduction in MRA4 airframes, that money has already been spent, I just hope we get the prototypes converted for use as R-1 replacements, MR2s however will start going sooner.

Harrier will not go Before F-35, the Gr9 upgrade spend makes that impossible, the only time Harrier squadrons will fold early now is after they timeout their airframes.

Dear lord I can’t wait to get rid of this shower, FRES should just be binned for a decade or 2, we’re already buying tons of new vehicles which are far more capable than what we were using before anyway.

Problem is the vehicles being purchased are via UOR’s leading a logistical mess with all the different systems being inducted.

The Salami slicing of capability has been a disaster which will lead to some dangerous crunches in the future. Also if the UK does pull out of A-Stan by 2015 we will be left with lots of counter insurgency kit pretty much useless in a hot war against a peer or near peer rival.

Another thing the capability given by the remaining Nimrod R2 was goldplated and something the service loathed to lose. They have also been used in the battle against roadside bombs!

I will take the extra C17 and Chinooks but this shower of a government has to go!

Your complete misunderstaning of size and allocation UK “aid” to India, yet willingness to whine about it as if you were giving away mana from haven , does in fact make you very shallow. Google is your friend.. few minutes and you could have found all the information you wanted , and in turn not made that silly post… which in turn would not resulted in me calling you shallow. As for the mods.. you will find that they are NOT shallow… except Arthur who has mirror in his pocket and comb up his sleave all the time.

DJ = Not Indian

Not worth a comment

It was not my intention to old any nation to account… Just pointing out to one person, who by chance was Brit, that whining about foreign aid to former colony is tad .. silly… considering how much wealth was taken from jewel of the empire. If it was Frenchy whining about aid given to west africa, or Spaniard whining about aid given to Latin America.. they would have gotten same type of reply.

…second largest emitter per capita… top spot i proudly held by us Aussies :diablo:

Now as this thread has been derailed enough, I think we better return to discussion concerning how green paper and defense review might affect UK airpower… anything else including debate about “aid” does not belong on this forum and is best left for “general discussion”.

Did I at any time mention the size of the UK’s budget in my post! NO!

I was expressing an opinion NOT whining or making a silly post! As for google…don’t insult my intelligence!

I do not appreciate your trollish behaviour and have reported this post as well! It was your rude and unreasonable comment which has derailed the thread!

Also if you want to take on Arthur the MOD … your funeral!