– Too costly, hmmm, in fact a conventionnal aircraft carrier design were on the extreme limit (or lightly over) of the brazilian budget…..
– A possible commercial standard vessel from the koreans ???:confused: You speak about the Korean Dohkdo design ???
I doubt seriously that brazil buy this type of vessel (better for use of F35, don’t able to take RAFALE)Yes, I agree. The choice of RAFALE is excellent because the avaibility for aircraft carrier operation
I think that if brazil decided to purchase a aircraft carrier, this ship were similar to the CVF-FR design (French version of CVF british design)
CVF-FR is too much aircraft carrier for Brazil, for that matter I doubt PA2 if it ever happens will be based on this concept.
A minimal design is required in respect of Brazil, around 40 thousand tons two catapults, arrester gear engine, landing aids and minimal (if any) command and control facilaties. A number of countries could produce that type of carrier.
South Korea offers IKL-209 submarines to Indonesia
According to Jane’s Group, the South Korea was offer to supply 2 submarines to Indonesia, in a deal worth U.S. $ 1 billion for two units.
The South Korean shipyard Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME) TKMS defeated the German and French DCNS and is in the final competition with Russia (which is the class roviding the “Kilo”).Indonesia already operates 2 submarines IKL-209/1200 that were modernized by DSME and the new competition includes the construction of the second unit in Indonesia.
The South Korea has in operation 9 IKL-209 submarine and acquired the license for the submarine produce locally and export it.
Thats ironic! South Korea beat Germany selling what is in effect a German submarine.
Fedaykin
The RAFALE made 168 flights from the Foch, including several with internal fuel, two external tanks, four MICA and two MAGIC II, this was before the refitting made by the MB…
And yes, the French instaled a very small ski jump, the Brasilians can do the exact same thing.
Right now, the central “Cat” is rated for twenty tons.
Not only the RAFALE can be safely operated from the São Paulo, it can also have a decent load (at least in the ATA scenario), the biggest problem might not be the take off, but the landing (bring back capability).Cheers 🙂
But not in Swing Role with a decent bring back as you point out, why operate two different fast jet types off the Sao Paulo when the upgraded Sky Hawk are more then adequate in both roles. Better to save the money for a few years and allow the air force to get to grips with the Rafale then look at a replacement for the Sao Paulo…then get Rafale M.
Anyway I am dubious about how safe it is to operate the Rafale at high weights off the Sao Paulo, the French did it for testing reasons not for full operations.
INS Vikramaditya (ex-Gorshkov)
INS Vikramaditya contoversies are almost never ending, kept alive by the “experts” who skipped the basics regarding the ship, deal, progress of work and related developments, except for controversial stuffs from the loose media. Let me list some of the basics of the INS Vikramaditya deal (I won’t get surprised if FAQs like the “source” are taken up. Because, thats how ignorant people have been w.r.t the INS Vikramaditya.
INS Vikramaditya deal & major events
1) INS Vikramaditya deal signed in January 2004
2) ~$740 million is for ships modification & ~$940 million (u can correct the figures if necessary)
3) A little over $600 million will go to Sevmash for upgrading the ship. (refer http://www.sevmash.ru)
—– Deals outside Sevmash
————- 8 + 1 boilers form SDB (all delivered by mid-2006)
————- 4 x 1,500kW Genset from Wartsilla for Electricy Generation
————- Underwater comm and related equipment from Keletron.
————- etc4) Gorshkov moved to Sevmash dry dock in Dec 2005 after stripping. (http://www.sevmash.ru)
5) Maximum work to be completed, including major works like new equipment installation, deck extension, propulsion etc etc to be finished before launch.(http://www.sevmash.ru)
6) Launch planned for November 2006 after completion of the above works. (http://www.sevmash.ru)
7) Indian delegation visit Sevmash in June 2006. (http://www.sevmash.ru)
8) Sevmash conveys to the Indian delegation regarding additional work involved. Indian delegation head confirms the delay due to additional work. He says its unfortunate, but hopes to see the work completion in 2 years. i.e Dec 2008 (http://www.sevmash.ru)
9) Approx $400 million of the $600 million for Sevmash have been transferred for the work by 2006 end.
After June 2006 visit of the Indian delegation, its most likely that the no further funds was made available to Sevmash and hence the work was halted. Its probably after the work on INS Vikramaditya was halted that Sevmash moved the workforce from the carrier to other projects.
——— between June 2006 and mid-2007 there is hardly much news ——
10) mid-2007, some _____ from the Janes pullout what happened in June 2006 and gets success with their “hot” & “scoop” story and screams —–> Gorshkov modification facing major trouble. All others follows with their own theme and speculation.
IN and media pulls out the Russians for moving the workers to other project is, but the reason behind moving workers to other projects is kept-under.
11) Nov 2007, ex-chief scream out on additional work and price increase….. What the hell was he doing when he was in charge??? His successor screams the same in same words (refer the words printed in paper, one wonders who actually wrote for whom or who wrote it for them)
12) Dec 2007-Jan 2008 —- Sevmash “opens up” with new images, Gorshkov with completed ski-jump is flashed…..and draught ridden online community are greeted with an almost formed STOBAR carrier.
More pictures of the carrier arrive by 2008-end. INS Vikramaditya – in most likely service colour – is an eye candy. Truly a Beauty.
13) Nov-Dec 2008 —- even as the media was allout with their planted story regarding Indian Navy ditching the carrier, Indian Naval Chief Sureesh Mehta held a press conference on Mumbai terrorists attacks. Noteable among the press conference was the large banner in the background.
None of the “experts” noticed it nor its importance and the reason why not much photos are available or vedios nor any mention of it anywhere online.
The significance was that —– the background banner had in it a large photo of INS Vikramaditya at Sevmash drydock getting ready for launch. That simple background conveyed how much IMPORTANT INS Vikramaditya was for Indian Navy. But ignorant of this, the “experts” went out on their routine.
This is the first time that I ever saw Indian Navy doing a press conference with a ship thats was still under construction!
14) INS Vikramaditya is launched in Dec 2008, everyone hoping to see a final price negotiation to conclude.
15) 2009…..But, the final price not yet reached. Media as usual went with their on own baseless figures from unnamed Russian sources, where as Russian media quote these Indian media to report the same.
Surpriing is the fact that none of the media or “experts” DARED to use the Right To Information act to get the figures regarding how much was paid to the Russians during the years for Gorshkov modification and rather kept on with their “motivated” reports. Its wonderfully a very “transparent” system!
16) August 2009 …..
Even 3 years after Sevmash conveyed the Indian delegation regarding the additional work and delays, the question of how much more to pay and how much already paid after the Russian demand remains unclear.
Its a DAMN 1095 days thats been wasted due to the incompetants decision makers sitting at the top. And still all the blame is on the Russians, when in 3 years time India could have taken the decision to either keep the ship or let it go and demand the refund!
Among the incompetants in the whole saga, the definite two who should never be cleared for their incompetance in decision making are the Ex-chief and the present Chief. 1095 wasted days since Sevmash first conveyed the delays to the Indian Delegation. What a shame!
The list of charges against the modified ship was plenty, with some of them now having
silenced….
A prominent charge among that was —
1) Simultaneous T/O & landing impaired due to the ships past STOVL status…
All this said….will the people have the courage to speak out against our own incompetancy???
Well when it comes to STOBAR operations you pretty much have no choice but to put the take off spots on the angled deck if you want to get off the deck with any kind of reasonable load.
The bigger Admiral Kuznetsov has the same issue and actually even with the far larger CATOBAR Nimitz class you can’t operate the waist cats during landing operations for obvious reasons.
India won’t be operating enough aircraft off the Vikramaditya or the new Viraat for simultanious take offs and landings, they will launch aircraft then go onto a downleg before turning back into wind for landing operations.
ok so they’ve removed some of the island,
compared too
Well that is interesting! Surprising as well! They have left the exhaust stack on but it looks like those cranes are hooked up to that as well so it might well be coming off.
Unless they have started to scrap her which makes little sense considering the work to the rest of her hull and the recent pictures of the land based Ski Jump they are either making major changes to the Island or even totally replacing it.
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