FedaykinWhilst much is made of Goalkeepers larger 30mm calibre it must be remembered that it fires a sub-calibre dart much the same as the Phalanx. What is being sent down range is very similar regardless of system, Goalkeeper has a slightly higher top rate of fire but nothing significant over Phalanx. A USN (I think) study showed that the dart from Phalanx would have much the same effect as a dart from Goalkeeper on a missile.
The main advantage Goalkeeper holds over Phalanx is its ability to continue searching and tracking multiple targets whilst engaging at the same time. Something Phalanx was not so good at with earlier blocks, later blocks like Goalkeeper can take data from the ships main sensors.
FedaykinPfcem can you please stop writing “BS” everytime you don’t agree with someone, its just rude and shows a lack of respect to your fellow forumers!:mad:
Jack has made some good points as have you on this matter if you can’t be bothered to stay polite I’m just going to start flagging all your replys to the mods.
Fedaykin“…to declare their total commitment to the ultra-advanced aircraft.” < LOL. I mean, just check the way the canopy opens. How does one eject if explosive bolts don’t (or just partially) detonate?!
BTW, does LM pay author’s fee to SAAB?? F35 code has already been taken by Danish Drakkens. 😉
I would of thought straight through the canopy, most ejector seats have a hardened head rest to allow it to go straight through if the canopy jettison system fails.
Fedaykinjust as begging before the US is the most cost-effective solution for the Pakistanis and F-16s are more than adequate for PAFs requirements anyway..
so, the PAF needn’t bother with the JF-17 since, its a generation behind the F-16 Block 50s that they’re getting, so it doesn’t offer anything extra..why is the PAF even bothering to induct these 3rd generation fighters anyway, when they could so easily ask for, no demand, more free or subsidised F-16s, which would cost less, and the infrastructure for maintenance, training, etc. already exists, whereas for the JF-17, a 3rd generation fighter, they’ll have to set up new infrastructure, at additional cost. unless the PAF wants an A-5 and J-7 replacement, otherwise its a total waste of time and money, and Pakistan is not even gaining any industrial base or knowledge whatsoever, unlike India, since the JF-17 is a Chinese developed aircraft anyway with little to no Pakistani input.
they’ve gotten umpteen items free-of-cost by begging the US and blackmailing them by saying that if they don’t get these items (such as F-16s and P-3Cs against terrorists ! :rolleyes:) then they can’t fight the terrorists, whom incidentally, they armed themselves in the first place to wage war against their two neighbours, Afghanistan and India.
Zardari was just a few days ago even telling the rest of the world that they should help arm Pakistan, and the Pakistanis are even asking Russians now for arms..imagine that ! the pathetic poor quality Russian arms, which the western and Chinese armed Pakistani Army has always considered poor quality and only good for quantity for large services like the IA..why even bother with the JF-17 then ?
Because up to 2001 Pakistan was under a US arms embargo with zero chance of getting late block F16. The FC1/JF-17 was the only choice on the table to renew their fleet with a type which has a BVR capability.
The embargo has heavily influenced PAF procurement decisions, they don’t want to be put back into the situation they faced in the 90’s. They have clearly stated that they want to maintain diversity in their defence procurement. The JF-17 offers an affordable type which supports their aerospace industry, whilst it is certainly behind a Block 50 F16 in respect of technology it has an agile airframe and western standard avionics which allow them to pick and mix systems and capabilities (I would say in avionics terms it’s similar to a Block 30 F16).
The JF-17 allows Pakistan to retire the earlier J7 and MirageIII/V from service in a managable way.
The plan is to have the FC20 and Block 50 F16 as the top tier, the JF-17 and upgraded Early Block F16 as the middle back bone tier and the J7PG as the bottom point defence tier. Once the J7 time expire they will be replaced with more JF-17 giving them a nicely balanced force structure.
Combined with the Ukranian tankers and Swedish AEW aircraft (maybe Chinese as well if they purchase the KJ200 balance beam) I think they should be fairly happy with their procurement strategy.
(I will be interested to see if they purchase the probe kit developed for the UAE F16 Block 16, seems an ideal addition to their new F16).
FedaykinOr that it can’t be cued via the radar for HOBS shots.
Indeed.
FedaykinThe point about F22 not being able to fire high off boresight missiles is kind of wrong. F22 can carry and fire missiles like AIM9X (or IRIS-T, ASRAAM etc same interface and a vanilla Sidewinder mode for both missiles) it just doesn’t have a helmet mounted sight as mentioned in point 3 to cue the missile off boresight.
Doesn’t mean you can’t load the missile on the rail and fire it.
FedaykinI have a hunch push come to shove that Dassault will integrate HARM if a SEAD capability (India for example). Raytheon is hardly going to throw up any barriers to the exercise if it means that it opens up the French market to their products.
FedaykinI think that is from the Rapier footage, tbh.
Yeah I remember the Rapier footage from a TV news program, a big thing was made of Rapier tracking the B2 on the news show. Ignoring the fact that the B2 was plodding slowly over the airfield at low medium altitude and Rapier was using optical thermal tracker. Frankly a B2 that did that over any low to medium altitude anti aircraft system would be dead meat.
On the other hand that doesn’t mean I don’t think longer ranged radar based systems can’t engage the B2, for example the Sampson/Aster30 combination should have little trouble with that scenario…actually the F22 should be fairly easy for that system as well. You just can’t beat the power that a ship based radar system can push out.
FedaykinTmor, Arthuro and Jackonicko can you please please please declare a truce!
I think you are all decent guys who are actually in the enviable position of being able to attend shows like the Paris on the trade days.
I have lost count of the threads where the three of you have descended into a petty school boy “I’m right – your wrong” argument in this forum…I like debate but this is boring!
So you have all met fighter and test pilots at a trade show who have the inside line about how their own product defeats all at blah blah blah defence exercise…so what? Unless I see an official statement its meaningless!!!
What does happen is you guys have an argument dragging everybody in and the mods lock the thread! If you don’t like the opinion of the other two doesn’t the twenty or so locked threads so far proove that maybe ignoring said statements is a better course of action then having yet again the same argument over the same points?
nuff said
FedaykinThen again Australia got a pretty deal in respect of her Mirage III airframes, engines, spare parts and even ground support equipment when they sold it to Pakistan.
Are there not some PAF Mirage flying now with made in Australia stickers on them?
FedaykinWhen Pakistan bought the Libyan Mirage III/V fleet & parts stocks for spares, they got spare engines which had never been unpacked, & found some of the Libyan Mirages had hardly flown.
Yeah didn’t Pakistan swap around some of it’s plans because of that? Wasn’t the intention to use some of the used Libyan airframes as spare parts sources for aircraft already in service. In the end they reversed that and used the in service fighters as an avionics source for the Libyan aircraft?
FedaykinIt looks, that those pods are between the two weapon stations on the wings. So it seems, that the J-10B has integrated ECM/EW pods.
Actually the pods look very similar to the ones on the JH7A picture, not quite the same but similar.
FedaykinAgreed (hey we aren’t supposed to do this – we should be sniping at each other!).
The RAF is already updating Tranche 1 to Block 5 standards – so they would be Litening pod ready?
A lot of countries need a modern fighter with some measure of air to ground capability. Second hand Eurofighters should fit in well.
Ah breaking the unspoken rules of the forum:D
I think its a case of “if you want to buy them what do you want fitted?”, so certainly Litening ready.
FedaykinI’d agree the Tornado are only fit to be scrapped.
Also note the ‘official’ go ahead has been given for Eurofighter countries to sell early aircraft to export customers:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/19/328380/paris-air-show-eurofighter-boss-nations-free-to-market-early-fighters-for.html
Well reallity has kicked in!
It was only way they were going to persuade the UK to sign onto T3 rather then continue stalling. In effect it means we can offload the early T1 airframes which would of been expensive to mod anyway, so when will Oman sign on the dotted line?
FedaykinI’d be interested in hearing where you read about the hanger queens.
The original Mirage 2000 date back to 1990 and around 60 Mirage 2000 are currently in service.
I thought the next UAE priority was AEW aircraft?
Actually several members of their airforce who I was on a course with.:D
As for hanger queens, well maybe a strong use of words but have a look at the hours actually up in the air for some of their fleet. Heck they are not as bad as some countries (Libya for one) who purchased aircraft and in effect never used them.
Sign In
