They will be scrapped pure and simple.

Airforces who are in the second hand fighter market have more attractive options from several sources. The F3 is too specialised and expensive to operate and would be in effect an orphan type. Also whilst the type might appear young in term of years the aircraft has always had expensive structural issues, many had to have their airframe beefed up after only a few fatigue index points were used.

If the cold war had continued then it probably was the RAF’s intention to operate the F3 along side the Typhoon. This makes sense considering the FGR2 Phantoms intended OSD was 2008, they were going through a SLEP when they were retired in 1992 (uprated engines and airframe mods). Also Typhoon was intended to enter service many years before it eventually did. In effect we would of had FGR2 Phantom, F3 Tornado and F2 Typhoon in service along side each other for a few years with personel moving from the older types and Jaguar to the Typhoon (and FOAS as well…don’t forget that!). Well the collapse of the USSR and peace dividend put paid to that. It was criminal how the Phantom was drawn down so quickly before the F3 force was even properly worked up and with the money being spent on its SLEP.:mad:

I think none has the budget, except maybe Brazil, which has already narrowed down its choice to Gripen NG, Rafale or F-18E.

Chile has just bought a mix of new & used F-16s, standardising on the type, Peru is refurbishing its old Mirage 2000s & already has too many types, making more used M2Ks the most likely “new” purchase, Mexico only has F-5Es for air policing, & even used F-16s would be quite a step up (but the most likely one, IMO), Venezuela is not a permissible customer, Colombia is still buying old Kfirs & upgrading them, which shows the limits of their ambitions, Ecuador would be in the market for something much cheaper than an F-15, & probably secondhand, Bolivia is looking at L-159s – again, showing the level aimed at – & that really only leaves Argentina, which is realistically another used F-16 or Mirage 2000 customer, unless it buys Russian – which I think unlikely, even if a Kirchner is in office after 2011.

Argentina has expressed interest according to Saab in the Gripen, new or used I’m not sure but those surplus A/B model must be highly attractive
I think they would need retrofitting with a refueling probe but their good operational costs and ease of maintenance would be ideal for the Argentine airforce. They would have some attractive weapons package options as well, its compatible with the Sidewinder they field on the A4 and whilst Meteor would be out of the question due to UK content America might be OK about AMRAAM. South Africa would possibly make some offers in that respect as well.

Would it be a threat to 1435? Well not really unless they purchased them in high enough numbers and purchased some tankers as well to support them. On the other hand the RAF would be pleased as it would justify Tranche 3 purchase and a possible return to squadron level operations at MPA.

Talarion?! 😮

That must win the “worst named UAV of the century” for a mile!

True but it is a handsome piece of kit.

wouldnt it be useful to have them sitting in areas of trouble?

Even if it was operating in a hot area it would still take too long for it to get to where its weapons were needed. Actually to be of any use it would have to be up weeks at a time which means it would have to be unmanned.

Not that I don’t think blimps would not be of use in A-stan, unmanned types with synthetic radar, ELINT systems or as communication relays would be very useful.

Having spoken to some of Illustrious’ officers last year about the F-35B and the Invincible class, here are their conclusions:

1 Lightnings can be operated from the decks of a CVS without difficulty;

2 They fit on the existing lifts although it is a squeeze, in rough weather they would be loaded diagonally to be on the safe side. Aircraft are only struck down to the hangar when unarmed and de fuelled, so only the empty weight matters. Max take off weight is irrelevant. A CVS’ lifts have a max capacity of 18 tonnes, more than a Clemenceau class CVA’s lifts (15 tonnes).

3 The total number of F-35Bs that could be operated is the same as the number of Harriers, their ‘spot factors’ aren’t that different (0.82 for the Harrier, 1.09 for the F-35B). An Invincible can operate a maximum of 22 aircraft, in practice the RN found 14 Harriers and eight helos (five Merlins and three Sea King ASaC7s) was the most efficient balance. Unless an aircraft is due for maintenance, they stay on deck until the next sortie. Hangar and flight deck combined mean an air group of this size is easily achievable even with the F-35B.

4 Falklands damage to Invincible. To be taken with a pinch of salt. If it had happened, SOMEONE would have talked about it by now. A bomb (most of those dropped by the AAF were 1,000 lbers) going off inside Invincible would have caused massive structural damage and large numbers of casualties, as there is nowhere on a carrier that doesn’t have significant numbers of crewmen in the vicinity. The ship would have had to withdraw back to the UK for repairs. Too big to be kept secret. I have seen Invincible recently in Portsmouth dockyard up close (standing 20 ft away on the quayside!). although she looks somewhat forlorn, the hull looks solid and the dehumidifiers crammed into the hull openings on the starboard side appear to be in working order. I see no reason why she couldn’t be returned to service, she had a major overhaul less than two years before being paid off for one thing. Her decommissioning was purely financial in motivation.

Warship hulls tend to last a lot longer than the equipment within them, and the Invincibles were designed on the principle of ‘upkeep by replacement’, meaning when something wears out you simply unplug it and fit a new one, engines included!

Yeah I remember that refit Obi, I found it all rather bemusing when they paid her off considering the fanfair they made about what had been done for the refit.

I can’t see her being sold now, the countries that might of been interested in her now have other carrier projects. Somebody mentioned Australia but they are getting two larger Ski Jump equipped ships.

Actually further from that I think CAAM (launched from the Seawolf VLS) and CEC should be pushed forward for the Type 23 along with ARTISAN so we can rip off those missile directors and get a true budget AAW platform to go alongside our Type 45 as soon as possible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/5461255/RAF-chief-predicts-controversial-takeover-of-Royal-Naval-air-power.html

RAF chief predicts controversial takeover of Royal Naval air power

Sir Glenn, 55, heaped praise upon the Typhoon, the RAF’s controversial multi-role combat jet, which, like the carriers, has been widely dismissed by many senior officers as a waste of money.

The RAF chief said that anyone – including his fellow senior officers – who suggested that the aircraft was a waste of money was speaking “rubbish”.

He also revealed for the first time that the Typhoon force will consist of around 123 jets and not the 232 as originally planned.

Privately, many senior officers believe that the aircraft is a Cold War relic and a waste of money. But Sir Glenn dismissed these claims as “rubbish”, adding that it was “disappointing” to learn that such smears were being peddled from within the Ministry of Defence.

He added: “There is no other aircraft better than the Typhoon except for a US F22 Raptor and an F22 is significantly more expensive. Typhoon is truly multi-role, it is a world class aeroplane. It is absolute rubbish to call it a cold war relic and that just demonstrates that people do not understand what the aircraft does.”

The RAF will only receive just over half the original number of the 232 Typhoons which were originally ordered, the rest will be sold to foreign allies to help pay for the cost of the aircraft.

Sir Glenn admitted that the 19-year operation in the Gulf, which began in 1990 and ended last week, and the war in Afghanistan had taken its toll on the RAF, from which it would take years to recover.

Yawn!!!

Yet another salvo in the ever increasingly childish battle between the three main service chiefs! Wasn’t the head of the army at it last week…

I’m sick of it! They should be told to get on and stop attacking each others main equipment programs or face the sack!

Haven’t they learnt that since the 2nd World war that when a rival service equipment program gets cancelled that by in large the treasury keeps the money rather then use it on another services equipment program. In effect they all loose out through salami slicing of capability!

They should grow up and stand together rather then continue with this petty battle!

Actually another question I have for our fleet experts, but how many V22 would the RN need to support AEW for two carriers as well as a secondary tanking and COD role. Would we need an OCU as well or buy into American training?