Emotions aside, PAF in current state stands no chance against IAF. Infact IAF can engage PAF while staying in their own territory; thanks to their foresightedness of acquiring BVR. They dont even have to bring MKI or MiG29 into action, Bison fleet will be sufficient to finish off most of the PAF’s flying relics. PAF will pay for its negligence for not acquiring any kind of BVR system. Even BVR capable J-8 would be better than WVR capable F-16s. But PAF’s top brass’s unrealistic passion for western technology has brought PAF to a point of simple impotancy. PAF will eventually reap what it has sown.

I did write a long thought piece about this in a long gone thread but it is far more complicated then you see it, no offence meant. We need to look at the tactical situation of both air forces before we draw a clear conclusion.

It is correct to point out that at this moment the IAF has a general advantage over the PAF at this point but that wasn’t always the case. Historically the PAF has always been the most effective wing of the Pakistani armed forces with a general technical advantage in equipment through to the 1980’s over the IAF. It wasn’t negligent of the PAF in not having a BVR capability up to the 1980’s they didn’t really need one as their main rival the IAF was also a WVR force. The PAF was mainly a defensive force and the IAF had to come to them to engage them in combat. Unfortunately their main supplier of advanced weapon systems America took away their support and India upgraded to a BVR capability by the 1990’s. China was in no position at the time to provide a suitable BVR missile system.

There was nothing that Pakistan could do about this situation in the short term; this is the main reason for the pushing of the JF-17 program. In the late 90’s it was the only project on the table that might give the PAF a BVR capability. Of course the situation has changed now and AMRAAM is on the table along with an AEW capability. Whilst the PAF is waiting for these new capabilities their main combat tactic at the moment is to avoid any BVR missile volley and get to the merge.

Certainly within the PAF high command I would expect a certain degree of realism, they know they are not a match for the IAF at the moment they just don’t have the capability to truly penetrate Indian air space to any degree. The main roll of the PAF is to defend their air space and act as a deterrent. There plans would be to cause enough damage to give the Indian government pause for thought or even allow time for deployment of nuclear weapons.

For the IAF we often see in the context of the rivalry with Pakistan but they have other problems strategically. Namely China that has an ever growing regional presence with a virtually bottomless defence budget, Indian defence procurement has to be in the context of balancing China’s power in the region. In relation to Pakistan both countries operate under the concept of MAD with both sides capable of some kind of nuclear response.

Well these are my thoughts on the matter.

turns out the publishing date for that article is 1987..that must be the F-16 that PAF lost in what was called a fratricide incident then.

Hah! End of story then:D

Its funny how these articles from the past come up every once in a while.

NY Times link

I wonder which aircraft of the Afghan AF shot down the F-16..not good PR for the PAF I’m afraid..:diablo:

It would be utterly humiliating…which makes it all a bit weird.

Even an older F6 would not have much trouble with whatever Afghanistan fields which I think is an L39…I will have to check. The only way they could shoot down a PAF jet if the pilot was not expecting it in straight and level flight.

My money would be more on a SAM (NOT STINGER – LONG OUT OF DATE) or AAA.

As I said earlier I think there was a loose promiss from the Saudis of help in the event of a war. It did appear in some official publications and would usually be reported as AWACS and escorting F15.

Personally I think it was probably not much truth in the story of this promiss especially as the Saudis are hardly an expeditionary force.

At least I am not rude, arrogant and pig headed sir. Your opinion is not fact. Your opinion is simply that….opinion.

I have cited multiple statements from reputable sources like the agency developing the actual system under debate (the US Missile Defense Agency)that state that there has not been enough operationally realistic testing. I have cited government reports and congressional testimony that state that significant quantities of the technology already deployed are not mature and will not be so for a number of years. That you have consistently shown no interest in even addressing them speaks to your lack of understanding of the arguments those on the other side of the article are making.

And all you can come back with are insults and statements that you cannot prove. It works you say. it has worked you say. it will work you say. The North Korea example you cite proves that you can read but not comprehend what you read as well as you claim.

But at the end of the day you will lose this argument. Obama will do the sensible thing and kill this boondoggle. You and the NeoCons can cry all you want but it is a flawed technology that does not work as advertised.

I would hit the ignore button, I tried debating him, including him, waving an olive branch and all I got was insults. Closed mind with an “I’m always right complex”!