FedaykinDifficult one really whilst the F.3 Tornado is vastly superior to anything Argentina operates it is also getting old and expensive to maintain, the Typhoon should be far cheaper to operate and maintain down south. Further whilst Argentina is not yet in a position to rebuild her armed forces I think they are more interested in updating their obsolete fast jet fleet which in South American terms is barely second tier in comparison to Chiles/Venuzuaela and now Brazil. The latest talk in AFM is that Argentina is looking at second hand M2000 dash fives from France or Mirage F1C. Now whilst the F.3 would significant tactical advantage over both these types there is no harm in showing a commitment to the Islands defence by basing your newest type there.
FedaykinDon,
I used this book for reference:-
Claims to Fame: The Lancaster
Author: Norman Franks
Format: Hardcover
Publication Date: March 1995
Publisher: Arms & Armour
Dimensions:9.5″H x 6.5″W x 1″D; 1.4 lbs.
ISBN-10: 1854092200
ISBN-13: 9781854092205I’m sure that new and used copies will abound on the net, but should you run into difficulties, I will help with scans.
All the last few Lancasters of that particular batch seem to have gone to 617 Sqn, probably as replacements for those lost on the Dams Raid.
I’m no 617 expert, but I think their next major operations involved the 8,000 lb blast bomb, in which case they will have required modified aircraft with the bulged bomb doors. Perhaps that’s why EE147 came to be passed on to 619 Sqn (just a guess, though).
Fedaykin,
Regarding the B.II Lancasters, I could write a book. Or at least, I could if I was able to undertake enough research, ‘cos they get quite confusing as well!
Some, but not all, Lancaster II’s had the bulged bomb doors for 8,000 lb bombs. A lot of those that did, had the original FN64 under turret intended for all Lancs at one time. These (turrets) seem to have been in service far longer than those on Merlin engined Lancasters, and were probably appreciated when the “Shräge Musik” attacks started. Most of the B. IIs with standard bomb doors seem to have had the FN64 deleted, although my memory is telling me I’ve seen a few photos showing them in service.
The B.IIs were replaced in 3 Group by Merlin Lancasters and in 6 Group by the Halifax III with Hercules engines.
As far as I know, no B.II was ever re-engined with Merlins. Perhaps the airframes were considered to be too goosed to make it worthwhile?
Maybe you should take some time to write a book;)
I had a large poster all about the Lancaster when I was a child (obtained from the Eastbourne air show) and it had a nice big pic of a B.II with the FN64turret.
I presume they took all the useful transferrable stuff off the B.II airframes turning them into empty hulks.
Am I right in thinking that the B.II didn’t have the same altitude or speed performance but was a bit more frugle on the fuel.
On a side note on different engines I remember seeing a picture once of a B17 fitted with four Allison V12’s. Looked like a very sleak customer.
FedaykinCould the elevator thing be to accomodate the Hawkeye ? I presume that it has a bigger footprint and hence needs a larger elevator………..
The government made a big thing about future proofing by effectively buying the CTOL version but leaving off the catapults and arrestor gear. The Hawkeye is still a possibility for the Fleet air arm, it does everything they want!
Of course the Rafale has no wing fold mechanism unlike the Hawkeye so maybe the Hawkeye can fit onto a smaller elevator?
FedaykinI must admit I would like to learn a bit more about the Lancaster B.II which was fitted with HP radial engines (I also think some had a belly turret as well).
I know they didn’t spend much time in service but were they scrapped or rebuilt with Merlins?
FedaykinWhats the point of having smaller deck elevators on the RN version? Wouldn’t the larger elevator be a benefit if the carrier is reconfigured in the future.
FedaykinWould the retiring Tornado ADV of the British be a good fit for near-term F-4ej replacements? It would buy them time until the F-35 program matures to the point where they could commit to it. The ADV seems pretty much a close match in capability, only its a much newer platform than the F-4ej.
If its the a2g role that would be a problem then I’m sure the Isrealis would mate their litening pods to them for limited a2g.
No the ADV in RAF service are nearing the end of their fatigue life and they are used in a different role.
There would be no advantage introducing an old type to replace an old type, a type with a completely different support infrastructure.
I don’t think Japan is a country that shops on the second hand market! They are one of the few countries that could possibly consider the massive cost of the F22 and considering how secrative they are when it comes to their air force (sorry air self defence force;) I don’t think America would see them as much of a security risk when it comes to the Raptors technology.
I think America would also regard some extra Raptors on Japan a welcome boost when it comes to asian security and the issue of china.
FedaykinNo she isn’t remotely useless but that is because the RAF have learned how to get the best out of her. She is not however the ideal platform for the role she performs. All that is now changing with both Number 3 and Number 11 Squadrons working up to IOC on the Typhoon F2 and Number 29 Squadron working its butt off in the OCU role. The Tornado ADVs days are well and truly numbered.
Yeah the days of the F.3 are nearly over, I will certainly be excited when the Typhoon F.2 makes her first visit too the Falklands (that will certainly be an interesting AFM photo shoot – just a hint to the powers that be). What I find amusing is that if the Phantom had not been retired in 1992 the out of service date for that type was meant to be about now.
FedaykinDoes any of the Ukraines aviation plants work on or build the RD-33?
Considering Pakistan has purchased Ukrainian equipment before including tank engines I don’t think they would have any problems with selling jet engines.
I know the Ukraine operates the Mig-29 so I would of thought they at least have the facilities to overhaul and zerotime RD-33 engines.
FedaykinI think somebody is pulling your leg, I think SNECMA would of said something about supplying M-88 to China to fit in the JF-17.
FedaykinI wouldn’t say the Tornado is utterly useless today Schorsch:rolleyes: the old girl still gives a good showing. The ADV is a very mature platform which has benefited from recent upgrade programs, she can be a dangerous foe in air combat exercises if she plays to her advantages.
The IDS was obviously originally designed to penetrate soviet forward air defences at low level and hit critical targets like airbases with pin point accuracy. These days they operate at medium level and tankers take care of any range issues. We musn’t forget the ECR variant which is a potent dedicated SEAD platform.
Whilst the ADV is close to retirement the GR4 is going to be seen for many years to come, the Rafael Ligtening III is being integrated and she will probably be fitted with an AESA radar before the Typhoon which won’t see that capability until batch three.
FedaykinIf anything else I hope this pushes Britain and America to investigate appropriate IFF systems for vehicles.
FedaykinI have to agree with Crobato I think “Lease” is the key point with these jets, the issue is going to be fudged. To be honest Russia can’t do too much if China brakes the resell agreement, China is just too big a customer!
As for avionics I think Pakistan were initially concerned about an all Chinese avionics fit but China has done alot to sort out any fears and Pakistan is now happy.
FedaykinPersonally I always felt that Boeing should of offered the 777 from the start.
Whilst I would quite like to see the a330 in USAF service my main concern is the RAF! Frankly I don’t care what type it is as long as the RAF gets some new tankers.
FedaykinWelcome to the forum Vector1771!
May you have as many posts as SOC:D
FedaykinWe already have a thread for this which already refers to those quotes.
Is the program dead? —–No.
Is the program delayed a bit? —–Yes.
The question is how many of the 100 RD93 ordered have been delivered and what is the status of the WS-13 program? Considering that the RD93 have only been purchased for the JF17 program and it seems unlikely that China is going to induct the type into their airforce we have more then enough engines to give an initial operating capability to the Pakistani airforce. By using some of the engines as a spare parts resource Pakistan can certainly operate a small number of JF17 for a number of years. In the end what could Russia do about that? Embargo China? unlikely considering they are such a large customer and China is getting close to the point where they can do without Russian help if push came to shove. India could stop shoping from Russia in protest but that would have a serious impact on the viability of their armed forces and it wouldn’t exactly bother China.
We then get to the issue of the WS-13, certainly a mysterious engine but its starting to look like its in the same class as the RD33 possibly even a copy. If enough RD93 have been delivered to allow the JF17 to enter limited service with Pakistan until the WS-13 is mature enough in a few years time to allow full scale production for Pakistan then the JF17 is far from dead.
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