So why mention it? JSR was talking rubbish, you took him to task but in the process managed to spout some rubbish of your own, and JSR had the snappy comeback . The tactical lesson here being don’t overreach and leave yourself open to a counter-attack.

What rubbish?

:very_drunk:

that is not proper argument in comparing those two aircrafts.

First in Gulf war as well in Serbian campaign AWACS and far superior numerical advantage makes a huge difference.

Secondly. Mig’s which were sold to Iraq or Yugoslavia, as well those of Warshaw pact are not the same as for Soviet air force. And at least in Serbian campaign all of Mig’s had some problems due to improper maintenance, even going to the level that serbian pilots flew almost defunct fighters.

But if you want to compare new Mig-35 vs F-16 block 52-, then advantage goes clearly toward Mig-35.

Block 52+ is inferior and obsolete, – because it is not even up to block 52 standard.

in head to head :

Mig-35 wins in BWR (due to higer mix and longer reach missiles)
Mig-35 wins in close fight due to R-73M or similar, not to mention better agility.

Firstly a block 52+ is not a downgraded block 52. The + designation came about to account for the surprising amount of changes that were introduced to the airframe in that Block. There is a strong argument that the Block 52+ should of got a new block number. So you are wrong about that.

I am fully aware about the operational advantages the F-16 has benefitted from but that doesn’t take away it’s impressive kill count. If the situation was reversed old JSR would be huffing and puffing if we pointed that out.

Clear advantage goes to mig 35? Based on what? The paper capabilities of its airframe, engine and missile combination?….don’t make me laugh!

:very_drunk:

Correct. And that is good for Iraqis, as 150 milion$ per F-16 is absurd price and indicator of corrupt deal.

For this money Iraq can get much better 3xMig-35, or two beasts of the skies (except 5gen aircrafts) Su-35.

also AT-6C will be scraped as 30 milions$ per that type of airplane is also absurd.

No it is a sign that you need to do a bit of reading up about how a US FMS deal works, they are by in large more expensive then a direct procurement from the manufacturer but the flip side is the USAF takes on full responsibility to deliver both the aircraft and associated training.

Also I am rather bemused why a consensus is developing that the F-16 is an unreliable, out of date piece of Junk going on what is being said by various parties here.

The Iraqis are (or maybe with current events) getting standard Block 52+ airframes. They will of course lack some of the cabling and software drops to allow carriage of Nuclear weapons but that is hardly a surprise or an issue. They are already wired for more advanced munitions which are a purchase and software drop away.

Also where is all this TOSH coming from about it being an unreliable single engine type! This isn’t the 1950’s you know! The Block 52+ is powered by one of the most mature and reliable engines available on the market! The F100-PW-229 is a superb engine which is serving many airforces very well without complaint. The whole single vs twin thing is frankly a non issue now when you consider the reliability of modern engines. It actually has an enviable safety record and a 30% reduction of life cycle cost vs the previous variant.

Then shall we look at combat record shall we?

F-16 has shot down 76 enemy jets for one loss (not counting taken by a SAM)
Mig-29 has shot down 1 drone but has been shot down 18 times by other jets including the F-16 – stick that in your pipes and smoke it!

I expect this silliness from JSR but come on guys lets be a bit more sensible about this all.

A Hawk can keep up with an A330. You may need to check Wiki, but I can do the math myself.

Yes a Hawk can easily keep up with an a330 flying straight and level but that is not we are talking about here. QRA is a rather different kettle of fish, there is no way a Hawk can catch up to an airliner without plenty of warning.

Another Photo…hmmm buyer beware?:

Interesting, I had heard those Corvettes were no-longer in a material state that would make it worth bringing them into service. Wasn’t that one of the reasons why the new Iraqi government accepted the Saettia MK4 patrol boats presumably heavily subsidised from Italy.

They have been sitting in the water since the late 1980’s rather then lifted and kept on dry land, what is the state of the hull? What preventative maintenance has been performed over the years? Have the engines been regularly run up? Have the ballast tanks been flushed regularly? How expensive will they be to run post refurbishment considering their age? What would spares availability be like even with a modernisation?

Interesting development, I wonder how much work is going to be required to bring them into service. Purely on a personal note it would be nice to see them in service after all those years, it is a shame when a new vessel gets laid up.

There used to be an army forum here years ago but it got scrapped, I don’t think the mods would allow it.

Indeed I remember it, one huge flame war that made the F-35 news and discussion thread look like well meaning, rational and friendly debate in comparison!

Going on this article the Black list is causing really big problems now:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140525/DEFREG03/305250018/India-Turns-Domestic-Sources-New-Air-Defense-Guns?odyssey=mod_sectionstories

By all means have a Black list but there should also be a mechanism to allow companies to get back off it.