FedaykinThe Carrier alliance building the QE class has adopted a far more sophisticated build process then has been adopted for the IAC. The IAC is a keel up build using small blocks requiring significant fit out on completion of the bare hull whilst the QE class is built in large super-block sections with most of the major systems and sub systems installed. With the IAC if it is found that any of the small blocks don’t exactly fit there is plenty of scope to steel bash it into shape. With the QE class they are building complete subsections weighing anything up to 8000 tons at different yards, owned by different companies many hundreds of miles apart and they must align perfectly!
The below video should give an idea of the staggering amount of accuracy the Carrier Alliance has had to provide in construction, the two sections being skidded together represent 30,000 tons of ship! If the measurements had been out then they would of been screwed!
For India to be building its first aircraft carrier is an impressive improvement of their domestic shipbuilding capability but lets not get carried away. The IAC is being built using a fairly conventional build model that is lower risk and simpler but is taking longer then the Carrier Alliance. Also in the time frame we are talking about whilst Cochin has one incomplete 40’000 ton carrier the “Carrier alliance” has one virtually complete 70’000 ton carrier significantly fitted out and most of the second carrier ready to go! In theory if they picked another yard big enough to start final assembly PoW could be significantly on its way to being finished as well. So I wouldn’t crow too much rkumar.
P.S. QE class with have planes but operated in a different way, STOVL means you don’t need to permanently attach an airwing to maintain a minimum level of skill.
FedaykinInteresting article in the Torygraph! If they pull it off the shot in the arm for the Typhoon program would be amazing. Just chew over this particular paragraph:
If a deal can be agreed – and detailed negotiations have been under way for more than a year – then the six states (Saudi Arabia, Oman, the UAE, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait) would sign a multi-billion-pound contract to buy Typhoons and military equipment. In return, those countries would like to see Britain strengthen its military ties, with a permanent garrison of troops and an RAF combat squadron stationed in the Gulf.
FedaykinWell 4th generation if you are Lockheed Martin 😎
Fedaykin3rd gen as in q5, j7 and j8 aircraft?
Still a lot. Some seven combat regiments of J8 and over 25 regiments of J7. Around six or so regiments of Q5.
Deino is the expert here but as I understand it the China Airforce classes the Su-27/J-11 as their third generation of combat aircraft.
FedaykinWell the Argentine procurement of the Mirage F-1M has got into the mainstream and tabloid press, in this case the Mirror! It is extremely funny, the amount of factual mistakes is breathtaking. Don’t play any drinking games when you read it as you will destroy your liver before you finish reading!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/falklands-alert-argentina-strikes-145million-2121901
FedaykinIn Blue water yes RN submarines would pretty much go around with impunity, they are Ghosts in all respects. In littoral conditions they would have more problems certainly albeit there is plenty of training in that kind of operational scenario for the RN submarine service these days. Sonar 2076 and Spearfish performance is classified but we are talking of being able to take a shot at 65km plus for that Torpedo and the sonar can track targets at even greater distances. If a Trafalgar or Astute decides to put a target to the bottom it can do it at significant stand off range and be long gone by the time ASW assets get there. Argentina knows this and it is a significant problem for them, fact is Submarines warfare is the one aspect of UK defence procurement where money really is no object. The UK is effectively a TIER 1+ submarine operator, as Jonesy has pointed out to take on that kind of capability would require vast investment and a significant improvement in skills.
FedaykinTimes have changed Obligatory, it is not about knowing scheduled services any more (albeit the scheduled services of Argentine commercial vessels are more then likely of interest to UK intelligence). The issue is AIS and GMDSS, any commercial ocean transiting vessel vessels over 300 tons must transmit AIS data. Any Argentine registered vessel that leaves harbour not transmitting AIS data will raise suspicion, ironically other commercial vessels that see a large cargo vessel leave harbour not transmitting AIS data will report it to the Argentine Coastguard who will have to repond. Either way the game is up!
You can even monitor AIS via the internet, a quick check shows there are currently 32 vessels close to Peurto Belgrano including amusingly a British tanker the “British Diamond” and Argentina’s sole amphibious cargo ship the “Bahia San Blas” which as of three minutes ago had a speed and course of 10.7 kn / 91Ëš.
FedaykinHe is suggesting vast investment and a massive attack with stand off missiles. Which is more realistic then your proposal Nic, also I think using paratroops is the weakest aspect of his plan. His plan hinges on getting transport planes down at Stanley. I would say that any landing would be heavily opposed regardless of this missile attack. So my criticism stands.
FedaykinJonesy has pretty much laid how they would do it, luckily for the Islanders and the UK there is no way Argentina can afford that shopping list.
It is again as Jonesy points out an interesting exercise in tactical thinking but the real barrier is money in the end. Also I should point that kind of procurement would be hard to miss and could be effectively countered by massively increasing the Island defences. Not that UK gov would like that situation but it is doable.
FedaykinAn MPA based on B737 (i.e. P-8) or A320 would have such a huge installed civilian base to draw on if needed that commonality within the RAF wouldn’t be very important. Spares are available OTS whenever needed. Skills are ubiquitous.
I wasn’t advocating for the a330 just pointing out that if you were making the choice a330 is a better idea over a350. Likewise I would select P-8 over a yet undeveloped a320 variant.
FedaykinA350, what do you do with all those space?
Is Boeing not also thinking about putting the P-8 avionics into a smaller Bombardier airframe (probably Dash8-400). So you get some connection to the USN, but a smaller less expensive plane.
Yeah I saw that but it is more of a maritime surveillance type and I get the impression that they are aiming at Canada as a CP-140A Arcturas replacement.
FedaykinWell I would pick a330 over a350 to give commonality with the tanker fleet but as Seahawk points out, you don’t need the space.
Have a look at the cabin:
The recent study conducted by the navy placed the C-295 as their lower baseline and the P-8 as the higher one.
FedaykinSomething like a MPA variant of the Airbus A340 since it has twin engines and the range, failing that, how about the P-8 as that is the only realistic option the UK has.
Erm? The video below shows the slight mistake in your statement :stupid:
FedaykinObligatory you need to have a look at a map of the Falkland Islands and some pictures of the terrain. Even if Argentina managed to get this lightly armed force onto the Islands they won’t be anywhere near MPA or Stanley. The Falklands are the size of Wales but with sparse open treeless terrain, the two harbours and the airbase are where all the troops defending the Islands are based. Whilst the Islands are sparsely populated they are not unpopulated, it would be virtually impossible for this lightly armed force to go unnoticed. All the islanders have radios on their 4×4 and the second they see a group of unrecognised soldiers the game is up! The Garrison and FIDF will deploy using their greater mobility with helicopters and pin the force down whilst the rapid reaction plan is put into action in the UK. The army emergency quick reaction force will be on the C-17, more Typhoon, AWACS and Tornado will be flying south using our tankers to support them. The South Atlantic guard ship and the closest SSN will be racing to the area bringing the fire-power needed to deter the woeful Argentine fleet. This can all be done far quicker then any reinforcements from Argentina not counting the fact that the Argentines do not have the ship capacity to move the heavy equipment needed. The British forces on the Falklands have helicopters giving them vastly superior mobility, it would be relatively easy to bottle up this light force of Commandos long before they got in a position to grab Mare Harbour, FIPASS, Port William (when finished) or MPA!
What irritates me every time this idea comes up is the presumption that the defending British forces on the Islands are some how morons. The scenario you suggest is trained for, special forces are not Super human! An elite force Argentina’s naval marines are but they can’t do miracles, the British forces on the Islands are well equipped, well trained and most importantly well dug in with heavier equipment that gives them superior mobility to any force that Argentina could land.
Have a look at the terrain in this video
FedaykinSaturate the island with paratroops and commandos to take control of a port and the airports. Have cargos ready to carry the most heavy stuff before the UK can send a few nuclear subs in the area and cut your supply lines, then set up an aerial bridge to bring the rest and supplies.
Rubbish! Poor even for you Nic!
Saturate the Islands with Paratroopers and Commandos?! How do you propose Argentina does that Nic? They only have eight Hercules that would have to get pass the Typhoons of 1435 then perform an opposed para-drop with no heavy equipment. They couldn’t do it close to MPA as the airbase Rapier batteries would cut the Hercules performing the drop to shreds. A Hercules can carry 64 troops so even being generous and saying the Argentine airforce could manage to get all eight aircraft over the Islands and perform a drop we are still talking about 512 men not counting that there is always a percentage who injure themselves on a drop. So hardly saturating the Islands with paratroopers is it? Those poor sods would be rounded up by a very pissed off FIDF more heavily armed before they even met the Garrison!
How do you propose getting Commandos onto the Island Nic?! As already established the Merchant ship plan is a non starter so what are the alternatives? Submarines? Well they only have three small Diesel submarines active (with very low serviceability), at best they could land a tiny handful of men. Lets be generous and say each submarine puts in fifteen men each we are talking about a force of about forty five men….fifty tops! Again they have to get over sparse open country with no support, no heavy equipment, without being discovered and then take on a vastly larger and well em-placed garrison plus the FIDF. The Garrison and FIDF have access to heavy equipment, transport and most importantly helicopters. So how about an opposed landing with their main Marine force? Well firstly there are only limited number of places that can be done all of them scoped out by the British garrison and FIDF. All of those locations will be watched. Even more of problem Argentina only has one troop landing ship the 11000ton ARA BahÃa San Blas. So same old problem it has to approach the Islands without being spotted and then perform a landing of what will be a force far smaller then the Garrison and FIDF. Do you think the UK would ignore a troop landing ship approaching the Islands?!
It is an absurd idea and again somehow assumes that the British forces on the Islands are utter morons!
Sign In
