Interesting idea but I think Argentine finances need to seriously improve.
It was not intended as a flame bait or simple trolling as you say. It was an aside at the end of a serious comment, an observation meant in jest in what is a British forum. And actually I think it is valid to know what Kirchner’s supporters in La Campora (who I do think are nutters) will say about it.
I dislike being called a troll, you could of PM’d me and I might of considered taking it down. Instead you childishly threw your toys out of the pram in an open thread. In effect you have derailed it due to your rather short comedy fuse. I am sick and tired of people going off the deep end in this forum every time somebody says something they don’t quite like. I was not flame baiting and I resent the accusation.
So indeed lets keep it on topic.
It wasn’t a flame bait and it wasn’t an attempt to derail the conversation just an observation. Chill out.
No I am not removing it.
I doubt they could afford the FA-50 that is the problem, the Argentine Government is not releasing that kind of funding. Looking at a recent press release the Argentine government ordered the FAA to get a quote for the Spanish F-1M. F-1M procurement is the minimal cost solution to avoid the embarrassment of the Mirage-III leaving service without replacement. According to reports about the Argentine Mirage-III currently in service their availability is virtually non existent and significant systems like the radars don’t work. In recent years it has been the Fightinghawk providing any kind of QRA with the Mirage-III effectively out of service in all sense but paper!
It will be interesting to see how Kirchner’s La Campora nutter supporters spin the story, what is the betting we shall get some amateurish CGI footage of F-1M shooting down Typhoon…
Just a nice video Spanish style:
Nearly ready for the trip to Rosyth:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/8968544935/lightbox/
Certainly an old picture of DA7, those are Cluster bomb units are they not?!
Italy is a signatory of the Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM) as are the other partner nations and Austria. Saudi Arabia isn’t a signatory but I presume they can’t buy off the Typhoon partners.
Another thing to note with the F-1M is whilst the airframes have a limited amount of hours left they can be conceivably SLEP’d. The Argentine M-III are just too old to even go through another SLEP. As Tempest414 points out they have a moderate ground attack capability and can conduct an intercept, to maintain they are not a significant jump technology wise beyond what they already operate so represent a simpler prospect to induct. Also presumably the Indra full flight simulator owned by the Spanish would be up for grabs as well! A full flight Simulator would help keep hours off the airframes. Finally with the French examples retiring there should be plenty of spares available via reclamation.
I think ironically the reason there isn’t more low hour Mirage III/V around is because the PAF has been buying them up!
It is a serious risk, the only way around I would presume is to complete the sale after they have arrived in Argentina.
They have a fast jet capability right now. The A-4AR has been their best equiped a/c for the past 15 years.
Problem is those A-4R are subsonic which renders them only useful in the point defence role, if you want to intercept a transiting airliner with a failed transponder you need to be go supersonic to be able to perform the intercept.
Looking at recent developments it looks like as mentioned earlier the government is finally taking control of the situation and telling the airforce they get what they get. Also I have a hunch that the Airforce has realised that if they don’t accept second hand jets they loose the capability altogether.
As a stop gap it is better then nothing and it pushes back expensive decisions at least a decade. If they can bring A-4AR availability back to a reasonable level alongside the, F-1, upgraded Pampa the airforce will have a solid capability to patrol the borders. Add the tanking and transport capability of the KC-390 and the Navy Etendard upgraded to SEM utilising parts from retiring French examples and things will be much better then now.
Main problem I see in respect of an F-1M buy is Argentinas international creditors, would they not try and seize the airframes as they leave Spain?
Lots of waffle! Not a single mention of Typhoon! Do you have anything to say about the Typhoon program? Look when solid Franco-files like Blue-Wings are telling you to play nice you should be getting the message! Say something constructive about the subject of this thread “The Typhoon program” or go elsewhere!
Poster F-18Growler: You seem to be VERY confused here, first these people didn’t “tell us information”, they rewrote history without ANY form of reference, source or else, they got it horribly wrong, were first corrected by an active member of the French AdlA who’s knowledge on the subject is second to none, and had the courtesy to give them some historical details on the subject, then kept insisting into telling us fairytales.
Then i intervened and posted evidences supporting poster OPIT; coming from sources as diverse as Rolls-Royce, SMECMA (programme manager), Dassault-Aviation (programme manager), Flight International archives etc.
Matter closed, except for those who told the story wrongly in the first place an still will insist they were correct to do so while trying to imply those sources were not more informed than we are…
The joke goes as follow, “some wouldn’t recognize their driving license even if it was wrapped around a brick and hit them between the eyes”.
In short there are some of us here who knows a lot better on some subject, deal with it.
Poster Bluewings: Considering the amount of efforts yourself puts into informing people, wouldn’t you like to see some things change for the better and if yes, then why not say it?
All i am asking for is for people to show respect and honesty i don’t think it is too much asking.
The MICA is a fascinating missile as it merges two different classes of missile into one. Even when France does fully deploy the Meteor the MICA will still play a role.
As for AA-11 I would say we have to be slightly careful with any engagement range and field of view charts as the missile has had considerable further development. A missile that deserves respect certainly!
That first picture is interesting EEL, Sidewinders on the outer stations. Presumably fairly old?
Come to think of it, practically all of this could also be done to the F-4E. Iran, are you listening (setting aside for a moment the question of why they would prefer to stick with Western airframes that will always be hard up for spares, rather than just buying MiG-29s and JF-17s)?
Ah-ha! Iran is a few steps ahead of you there Trident! 😀
A program was instigated in 2008 for the Iranian F-4 fleet. Called “Project Dowran” it is split into two phases and involves an overhaul, SLEP and Systems upgrade. The F-4D are being processed first then the F-4E and it will extend their life to a planned OSD of 2025. The airframes are taken down to bare metal, overhauled, strengthened, re-wired and the cockpit modernised with indigenous and Chinese systems including a new HUD, MFD’s and Radar. The radar is apparently the KLJ-7 giving a useful improvement in performance and compatibility with the latest Chinese missiles. Finally freshly overhauled engines are installed giving their F-4 a new lease of life.
It is a stop gap solution and my guess is it allows time for a decision to be made if they want to procure Chinese fighters in the future. It is certainly the last significant upgrade any Phantom will get globally and Iran will probably be the last operator of the type.