Flight deck sections fully on, just the remaining sponson and the aft Island to go!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/8812903028/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/qeclasscarriers/8802317929/in/photostream/

Nic, NATO isn’t helping the Syrian rebels.

Individual governments some of whom are in NATO are giving limited support. The major suppliers of resources to the Syrian rebels are the Saudi’s and Bahrain neither of which are in NATO.

Frankly I find your grand-standing over this matter and even your profile signature to be offensive Nic. I know you have your opinions but I think you are going beyond the pale now!

Well looking aside from the rather silly my d1ck is bigger then yours contest that palembang is keen on pushing the issue of future PAF fighter procurement is very interesting.

Certainly a few years back a variant of the J-10 was almost in the bag with senior PAF officials making favourable sounds, visiting the production line and laying out procurement plans. More recently I think a number of things have changed that path, the economic issue already mentioned I think is an important factor, the China Air Force getting all production is another certainly. I think we should also consider the recent F-16 procurement and upgrades as another factor, even if they get a variant of the projected J-10B it isn’t that much of a jump from their Block 52 or MLU F-16.

Finally I think the introduction of the J-31 throws a serious spanner in the works! Firstly it has all aspect stealth which will appeal to the PAF’s desire to field an aircraft that has similar features to future Indian procurement in particular PAK-FA and the indigenous follow on from Tejas. Another thing the J-31 appears to be able to use the same engines as the JF-17! That offers serious maintenance synergies and cost savings even over the fact it is a twin engine fighter, adopt a J-10 variant and it means a different engine.. If we assume that future PAF deliveries of the JF-17 will get the WS-13 or similar Chinese engine getting a fighter that uses the same is highly logical. As SAC have said that the J-31 is built with the export in mind there should be good opportunities for licensed production of components and even eventually final assembly.

A multi-role fighter force built around F-16, JF-17 and J-31 alongside force enablers like their AEW&C and tankers looks far more balanced to me.

The upgraded Mirage and older MLU F-16 should help bridge to that future force structure nicely.

According to Battle Flight by C Gibson the Air Force Department, after a basic assessment,stated that the F14 would meet UK Air Defence requirements in full. However, there were concerns over both aircraft and missile cost and that the F14 would no longer be in production when required by the RAF in the early/mid80’s. F15 was rejected for similar production concerns as well as cost of producing a 2 seat combat fighter version for the RAF and A2A refuelling/tanker support worries.

That is what I heard, probably read in that book actually.

I agree that the system and missiles as a whole if the UK had gone for Phoenix would of been too costly, the issue that they would no-longer be in production in the mid 80’s is suspect. F-14 was for sale in the mid 80’s and carried on in production until the 90’s.

If the UK had gone the F-14 route I would presume they would of been looking at the GE-F-110 rather then the TF30 maybe with some kind of licence build agreement on certain sub systems (making it more expensive but I digress).

Whilst the F.3 Tornado has a pretty poor reputation I think it was the right choice in the circumstances of the time. By the time they retired it was a very capable fighter in its defined role.

What angers me is ITV and then the rest of the press releasing the video footage of these nutters!

That is exactly what crazed Islamic extremists want! There will now be thousands of copies of the videos with suitable heroic music added of those guys being used as a victory message and recruitment tool!

The press yet again putting their own needs ahead of the national interest!

Nevertheless AWG-9 had a similar set of mission requirements to Foxhunter.

You were making the point that the swing-wing offered no advantage over other aircraft when the UK did select a swing fighter.

You said the cannon was not suitable for the MOD when said cannon was in service with the UK.

You said it used missiles not owned by the MOD which is just not true. Only the Phoenix was not operated by the UK MOD, Sidewinder was still the major IR missile at the time in the RAF and Sparrow was the preferred missile on Phantom. I don’t see issues in integrating Skyflash that couldn’t be handled.

I don’t agree that fuel would be a major issue the USN can put other fuel in its fighters and the RAF operated F4J taken from US stocks.

I realise we are slipping hair here but you some factual mistakes.

As it stands I agree that F-14 and F-15 were never going to be selected.

To be honest I would say that is splitting hairs there Swerve, indeed those Type-42 are newer but not by much and they effectively come from the same generation of British warship construction. The metal is old and the systems are obsolete, they would no doubt be very expensive to operate.

As for PdA, it would be mistake in my opinion for the Philippines to buy, she is also old in metal and fitted with obsolete systems. She also missed a refit cycle so the cost of overhauling her will be that more expensive and give them a ship that will be elderly and expensive to maintain. Personally I think PdA should be broken up as spares for the Chakri Naruebet.