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MiG-23MLD

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  • MiG-23MLD
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    Tornado has a very high wing load, making it a fantastic platform for smooth-ride low atlitude penetration and precise bombing. But the same feature also makes it vulnerable against SAM once locked upon (no energy for evasive maneuvers) and definitely renders the ADV a rather mediocre fighter in WVR area. You cannot have everything, gentlemen.

    Well of course no weapon system is perfect, but the Panavia Tornado has the distingtion of being one of the best multirole aircraft ever to have flown.

    http://web.tiscali.it/progettoinfo/Tornado_ADV_02.jpg

    It is true, it is not so agile with 7.5Gs overload limit and a relatively unimpressive rate of climb of Rate of Climb: 12,200 m (40,000 ft) per minute it does not seem to be a super fighter, but any aircraft is a weapons system and a launch platform for the weapons that do the killing, in that respect as a weapons platform the Tornado excells, armed with good ASRAAM and AMRAAMs and several air to surface weapons http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/torndgr1b/torndgr1b-6.jpg

    In that sense the Panavia Tornado becomes one of the best multirole aircraft in service today

    in reply to: What-If: NATO-WP Air War in Central Europe in 1987 #2563794
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Belarus Air Force Equipment

    AIR FORCE
    SYSTEMS Inventory
    1990 1995 2000 2003 2005 2010 2015
    FGA/RECCE
    Su-24MK/MR n/a 42 29 35 35 33 31
    Su-25/UB n/a 99 80 76 76 73 71
    FTR
    MiG-23MLD/UB n/a 45 40 35 35 33 30
    MiG-25 n/a 13 – – – – –
    MiG-29S/UB n/a 83 45 43 41 40 39
    Su-27P/UB n/a 24 23 23 23 23 23
    HEL: ATTACK
    Mi-24 n/a 74 53 53 50 48 46
    Mi-24R n/a – 4 4 4 4 4
    Mi-24K n/a – 1 1 1 1 1
    HEL: CBT SPT
    Mi-24K n/a 9 8 8 8 8 8
    Mi-24P n/a 10 – – – – –
    Mi-24R n/a – 4 4 4 4 4
    Mi-8 n/a 148 125 125 125 125 125
    Mi-6 n/a – 29 29 29 29 29
    TRANSPORT
    Il-76 n/a 29 16 16 16 16 16
    An-12 n/a 6 3 3 3 3 3
    An-24 n/a 7 1 1 1 1 1
    An-26 n/a 1 6 6 6 6 6
    Tu-134 n/a 1 1 1 1 1 1
    Mi-2 n/a 26 – – – – –
    Mi-26 n/a 14 14 14 14 14 14
    TRAINING
    L-39 n/a – – – ~ ~ ~
    AIR DEFENSE
    SA-2/-3/-5/-10 n/a 200 175 175 175 175 175
    MISSILES
    AA-7/-8/-10/-11 n/a ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    AS-10/-11/-14 n/a ~ ~ ~ ~

    From global securityBelarus air forces

    Compare the air force of Belarus with that of Serbia in 1999 and see that belarus is not as powerful as the Russian air Force or even Ukranian, in 1987 those air forces were even stronger because they were a single Air force

    Just in 1995 Belarus had 4 times more MiG-29s than Serbia ever had, some aircraft that Serbia lacked such as twenty four Su-27, thirteen MiG-25s and forty five MiG-23MLD

    Ukraine Air Force was little bit more comparable to Iraq`s but had much powerful weapons better equipment and better skills and knowledge about how to use their weapons

    from Global security
    Ukraine air force

    Ukraine – Air Force Equipment
    Check tha basicly Ukraine had 350 MiG-29, Su-27 and MiG-23
    Air Force
    SYSTEMS Inventory
    1990 1995 2000 2005 2010 2015
    BBR – 26 28 32 – –
    Tu-22M – 26 28 32 – –
    FGA/BBR – 166 166 71 71 71
    Su-24 – 166 166 71 71 71
    FGA – 34 34 63 63 63
    Su-25 – 34 34 63 63 63
    FTR – 409 206 277 277 277
    MiG-29 – 146 146 217 217 217
    Su-27 – 66 60 60 60 60
    MiG-23 – 140 – – – –
    Su-15 – 57 – – – –
    RECCE – 99 66 63 49 49
    Su-24 – 41 29 29 29 29
    Su-17 – 41 20 20 20 20
    Tu-22 – 17 17 14 – –
    CBT TRG – – 7 7 7 7
    Su-24 – – 4 4 4 4
    MiG-23 – – 1 1 1 1
    MiG-29 – – 2 2 2 2
    TPT – 219 323 142 142 142
    Il-76 – 174 160 60 60 60
    An-12 – – 100 21 21 21
    An-24 – 12 12 12 12 12
    An-26 – 30 30 28 28 28
    Tu-134 – 3 3 3 3 3
    Il-78 – – 18 18 18 18
    TRG – 456 345 361 361 361
    L-39 – 430 329 345 345 345
    Mi-8 – – 16 16 16 16
    Tu-22M – 23 – – – –
    Tu-16 – 3 – – – –
    SPT HEL – 160 304 304 304 304
    Mi-2 – – 111 111 111 111
    Mi-6 – 16 23 23 23 23
    Mi-8 – 144 170 170 170 170
    AAM – – + + + +
    AA-7 Apex K-23 – – + + + +
    AA-8 Aphid K-60 – – + + + +
    AA-9 Amos K-100 – – + + + +
    AA-10 Alamo R-27 – – + + + +
    AA-11 Archer R-73 – – + + + +
    ASM – – + + + +
    AS-7 Kerry Kh-66 – – + + + +
    AS-9 Kyle Kh-28 – – + + + +
    AS-10 Karen Kh-25 – – + + + +
    AS-11 Kilter Kh-58 – – + + + +
    AS-12 Kegler Kh-25MP – – + + + +
    AS-13 Kingpost Kh-59 – – + + + +
    AS-14 Kedge Kh-29 – – + + + +
    SAM – + + + + +
    SA-2 Guideline V-75 – + + + + +
    SA-3 Goa S-125 – + + + + +
    SA-5 Gammon S-200 – + + + + +
    SA-6 Gainful SD 3M9 – + + + + +
    SA-10 Grumble S-300PMU – + + + + +
    SA-11 Gadfly – + + + + +
    SA-12A Gladiator S-300V – + + + +

    Compare that to the Iraqi Air force in 1990 and you will see that in 1990 Iraq had a less powerful air force than Ukraine
    SYSTEMS Inventory
    1990 1995 2000 2002 2005 2010 2015
    Bomber 16 ~ 6 ~ 6 ~ 6 – – –
    Tu-22 8 4 4 4 – – –
    Tu-16 4 – – – – – –
    H-6D [PRC] 4 2 2 2 – – –
    Fighter/Attack 390 216 116 96 – – –
    J-6 [PRC MiG-19] 30 30 – – – – –
    Mig-23 90 70 40 20 – – –
    Mirage F-1 EQ/BQ 94 55 45 45 – – –
    Su-7 30 20 – – – – –
    Su-20 / Su-22 70 45 15 15 – – –
    Su-25 60 25 15 15 – – –
    Su-24 25 1 1 1 – – –
    Fighter 245 140 90 85 – – –
    J-7 [PRC MiG-21] 40 35 35 35 – – –
    MiG-21 150 75 40 40 – – –
    MiG-25 25 15 5 5 – – –
    MiG-29 30 15 10 5 – – –
    RECON ~12 ~5 ~5 ~5 16 38 38
    CH2000 – – – – 8 8 8
    SB7L-360 – – – – 2 24 24
    Comp Air SL7 – – – – 6 6 6
    MiG-21 5 – – – – – –
    MiG-25 7 5 5 5 – – –
    AEW –
    Il-76 Adnan 2 – – – – – –
    TANKER –
    Il-76 1 2 2 2 – – –
    TRANSPORT –
    C-130E – – – – 3 3 3
    An-2 10 5 5 20 – – –
    An-12 10 5 5 3 – – –
    An-24 6 6 6 6 – – –
    An-26 2 2 6 6 – – –
    Il-76 19 4 4 4 – – –
    TRAINING –
    AS-202 35 20 20 20 – – –
    EMB-312 80 70 60 50 – – –
    L-29 50 20 – – – – –
    L-39 50 50 50 50 – – –
    MB-233 16 8 – – – – –
    PC-7 50 25 25 25 – – –
    PC-9 30 30 15 12 – – –
    Yak-11 10 – – – – – –
    Helicopters – – – 2 21 21 21
    UH-1H – – – – 16 16 16
    Jet Ranger – – – – 5 5 5
    MISSILES –
    ASM –
    AM-39 + + + + – – –
    AS-4 + + + + – – –
    AS-5 + + + + – – –
    AS-9 – + + + – – –
    AS-11 + + + + – – –
    AS-12 + + + + – – –
    AS-30L + + + + – – –
    C-601 + + + + – – –
    AAM –
    AA-2/-6/-7/-8/-10 + + + + – – –
    R-530 + + + + – – –
    R-550 + + + + – –
    Check that basicly Iraq had a MiG-21 based Air forces with 180 third generation Mirage f1 and MiG-23
    from Global security
    Iraqi air force inventory

    in reply to: What-If: NATO-WP Air War in Central Europe in 1987 #2563865
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    ALMOST ALL RUSSAIN SAM SYSTEMS ARE FITTED WITH A TV CAMERA AND AN ASSISTED TRACK ENGAGEMENT MODE, SO THERE IS A VERY GOOD CHANCE THAT THE F117 THAT WAS SHOT DOWN WAS DONE SO WITH A CAMERA AND THE NAKED EYE 😉

    According to even the C in C of the Russian Air Force, they indeed detected the F-117 and even hit 2 more, the Russians probably in 1987 would had shot down some F-117 too, why? because they used old radars and old missiles to shot them down in 1999 think the F-117 would do lot of damage to the Soviet Union is a dream, the only Chance they had is in a surprise attack to certain strategic targets and only in the begining of the military clash.

    After a real enemy with the size and weaponry of the Soviet Union would inflict a real damage to a small fleet of F-117 like the allies did to the Me-262.
    Remember the Soviet Union had more SAMs, more variety of SAMs and aircraft than Serbia or Iraq, consider that Serbia`s air force was even less powerfuil than that of Belarus or Ukraine and even manage to shot down a F-117

    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    The shoulder winged planes powered by Rolls Royce engines—Tornado, Jaguar, JH-7—seem to have similarities around the engine intake. all being smaller and squarish, instead of being completely lateral with the fuselage, like the MiG-23. JH-7 was originally designed as a VG aircraft, but cost and complexity issues turned that into a fixed wing plane. The JH-7 can carry BVRAAMs like PL-12 but essentially that is for self defense. Athough agile, the plane lacks the essential thrust to weight ratio needed for it to go mano o mano with lighter fighters.

    The Cold War environment which fighters like the Tornado are born made Soviet tank formations the greatest threat. Air superiority is useless if your ground bases got runned over the Soviet tanks.

    I wonder if the british Rolls Royce company has someting to do with the design of the JH-7? because the british aircraft Panavia Tornado and Sepecat Jaguar essenially favoured the bottle shaped fuselage and that also influenced the Japanese F-1

    All of these aircraft use a configuration similar to the Tornado

    http://xsc.xmu.edu.cn/UploadFiles/2004111982458315.jpg

    http://www.midwaysailor2.com/misawa/misawa-257b.jpg

    http://www.flygplan.info/images/sepecat_jaguar_3.jpg

    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    I don’t really think the JH-7, Su-24 or MiG-23 was influenced by the Tornado. These and other planes spontaneously arise from a design trend that started in the mid to late sixties. The trend starter appeared to be the F-111, which at that time, was being hyped as the next great fighter before John Boyd’s theories shot it down.

    I would agree with the F-111, MiG-23 and Su-24 relation however the aerodynamic configuration of the JH-7 resembles a bit that seen on the Panavia Tornado IDS aibeit without the VG wing, the missions filled by the JH-7 are also similar to those of the LUFTWAFFE`s Panavia Tornados.

    I am not suggesting the aircraft are related beyond a interesting similarity in niches filled and aerodynamic configuration, however since both aircraft are relatively from the same generation it is not surprising that they have some similarity
    At least from the aerodynamic configuration point of view both aircraft resemble a bit each other .
    http://www.aeronautics.ru/img001/tornado.jpg

    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/head/83/20050926/images/12689348_2005092609582363711600.jpg

    What i do like about the Tornado is that it excells in almost all the missions, while the F-14 or Su-24 remained as very specialized aircraft, the MiG-23/MiG-27 were too simple and primitive to be called a counterparts of the Panavia Tornado and the JH-7 i do not think has the weapons at the moment to excell in the interception or strike mode as the Tornado.

    The F-15I in the other hand is the only aircraft which i guess can perform better or at least as well as the Panavia Tornado all the mission the later does

    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Hi all

    The Tornado is under powered,turns like a pig,,,, A Hunter 50years old can out turn and out accelerate one at low speed…at high speed a Lightning goes faster and with more range…. the only thing a Tornado has going for it is it weapon load. Its a standoff weapon platform not a fighter..

    Who needs the to be so agile when you are armed with ASRAAM?

    The F-14D can not even compete in 2006 with the Panavia Tornado in weaponry
    http://www.ausairpower.net/asraam-archer.png
    The F-15 perhaps can be comparable, the JH-7 still is only a strike aircraft, the Su-24 is a piggy bomber, the MiG-23 remains mostly obsolete and still inferior to the Tornado ADV armed with AMRAAM

    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Err quite a wide sweep of different aircraft designed for different roles.

    Certainly the Tornado F.3 that have gone through CSP and AOP are actually quite good and have held their own against F15 and F16 in combat air excercises especially when used in BVR conditions. The main problem Tornado has now and actually throughout its life is high consumption of Airframe life. I vaguely remember that the F.3 had to start going through an Airframe life extension after only a very low fatigue index point had been reached (something like 18 points – someone please verify please).

    Looking at your list JH-7 and Su24 are really pure ground attack types whilst F14 and F15 started as primarily Air to Air types which have adopted ground pounding through their life.

    The Tornado really splits into three main structural variants (IDS, ADV and ECR) as well as numerous sub variants depending on each user and the progress of various upgrade programs.

    I think the only aircraft that close to be superior to the Tornado was the F-15, but i guess the F-15E must not be as good in the attack guise as the Tornado, the rest are not as good as filling the attack and air superiority mission as well as the Tornado did

    Long time ago i read the Tornado ADV even was even able to beat the F-15 in mock combat

    http://digilander.libero.it/dreamswings/ImmaginiAirShow/Rivolto2000/Tornado02.jpg

    in reply to: Cold war prototypes that didn't make it #2564891
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/yak50_1/yak50_1-1.jpg

    Another wonderful jet the Yak-50

    in reply to: Cold war prototypes that didn't make it #2564986
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    😀

    MiG-23MLD: That Tu-73 was actually a variant on the design which entered service as the Tu-14, so in a different two-engined guise it did enter service. As did the La-15 FANTAIL, as explained above.

    Wanderlei,
    the MiG-21I or MiG-21Analog wasn’t a prototype per se, but a development aircraft for the Tu-144. It’s not like a dead-end piece of development for something which never entered service.

    Interesting information to tell the truth i just read that it was not chosen because they prefered the Il-28, nevertheless i did not know it was a variant of a well proven design but for example there is a western aircraft that had a similar case that is the Jaguar Marine or Naval Jaguar M, this never entered production but was a design of a well proven and beautiful by the way aircraft.

    Here is the picture of one of the UGLIEST AIRCRAFT EVER the Tu-98
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bomber/tu98/tu98-1.jpg
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bomber/tu98/tu98-2.jpg

    fromTu-98

    A really wonderful aircraft the Il-22
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bomber/il22/il22-1.jpg

    from Il-22

    The Ill fated Il-54

    http://www.ivanovo.ac.ru/school21/nbn/pictures/il-54.jpg

    from http://www.ivanovo.ac.ru

    Russian aircraft

    Yak-19

    http://www.ivanovo.ac.ru/school21/nbn/pictures/ja-19.jpg

    in reply to: Cold war prototypes that didn't make it #2565629
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    i may be wrong but the La-15, ASCC name Fantail, did enter limited service, a unknown number, possibly 100 was built . i would of thought that there time in service would have been very short. as the Mig-15 was far better. two prototypes of a two seat trainer was also built the La-15 UTI.
    another [ very odd looking ] Lavochkin that never entered production was the La-200. has enyone eny photos. 🙂

    You are right it entered production, i was wrong around 500 were built but compared to the MiG-15 well it is almost a rejected product because the MiG-15 got the real production numbers that the La-15 needed and failed to achieve.

    Here is a picture of the La-200 by the way http://www.airwar.ru has several articles about aircraft that are quit unknown in the west to the General public

    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la200/la200-5.jpghttp://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la200/la200-3.jpghttp://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la200/la200-2.jpg

    fromLa-200

    Soviet post war iarcraft

    The single engine MiG-19 or I-420
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/i420/i420-1.jpg

    here is the I-370 a design between the MiG-17 and MiG-19

    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/i370/i370-3.jpg
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/i370/i370-1.jpg

    in reply to: Cold war prototypes that didn't make it #2566053
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Some Russian aircraft that never became operational
    fromTu-73
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bomber/tu73/tu73-3.jpghttp://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bomber/tu73/tu73-1.jpghttp://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bomber/tu73/tu73-1.jpg

    La-15
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la15/la15-4.jpg
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la15/la15-6.jpghttp://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la15/la15-12.jpg

    La-150
    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la150/la150-2.jpg http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/la150/la150-1.jpg

    in reply to: Russian Aircraft and low load #2566432
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    ‎Hi to every one

    There is a big question that I ask to my self but with no answer .

    Why the russian combat aircraft has low external load than the westrn aircraft in the same class . Can any one answer me and if we look to the Mig-29 we see the first class Mig-29A (9.12) has extrenal load up to 2000 kg and in the mig-29S have 3000 with no difference in the power and in the mig-29SM and SMT had increase to 4000 and 4500 with no any difference in power (engin threat) why the first A com with low load and the others had increase with no difference so why thy did it from the first, and why low load ? . if the answer is the design of the wing and its area or the russian load point its capacity very low .the same question for SU-27 and it’s family compared with F-15C and E in this case we see the SU-27 and it’s family has power above the power of F-15 . Can I hear a convinced answer ??? .

    I do not think the Russian aircraft carry smaller loads by simple technical reasons, if you look at an F-15E and a Su-30MK things can be misleading, the Su-30MK carries more fuel internally, same is the Su-34; the F-16 and F-15 will have lower thrust to weight ratio too if they are compared to the MiG-29 or Su-27 making them less capable dogfighters.

    The MiG-29A is basicly a simple air superiority very similarly to the F-16A, the F-4 needed two engines to do what the MiG-23 could with one in terms of performance, the F-4 is not a MiG-21 equivalent, it is more in the class of the MiG-23 and Su-15 and it is more a strike aircraft than a fighter, the MiG-21 is in the class of the F-104, Mirage III or J35.

    Before comparing any aircraft we need to see if they are for the same role and if they are in the same generation and niche.

    The MiG-29 has been kept in the line of what is thought to be a good light weight fighter while the F-16 and F-18 are more in the class of strike aircraft and have sacrificed their agility and thrust to weight ratio in order to get payload , however the Russians had no need to make them heavier when they had bombers in the class of the Tu-22M.

    The F-111 versus Su-24 are another good example, while the Su-24M carries less ordnance and has less range we usually forget the Tu-22M filled many missions a F-111 would fill.

    Aircraft in the class of the MiG-27 and Sepecat Jaguar are equivalents, however niether the F-4 or F-15 are in the same class, these are in the class of the Su-27/30.

    No one should compare the F-4E and the MiG-21 in terms of weight because one is a light weight day light fighter and the other a heavy weight aircraft

    besides many forget the Russians had aircraft in the class of the Tu-128 that dwarfs the F-4`s range or weight

    in reply to: Russian Aircraft and low load #2566706
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    We can not compare the nazis with the Soviets, that is not a correct statement, Nazism has been the worst political movement the world faced in the XX century, niether the Americans or the Soviets can be compared to the Nazis

    If comparison of death-toll is your instance of moral, you should live in a perfect world. However, 1953, 1956, 1961 and 1968 were at no standards legal. The governments of the officially independant countries of eastern Europe reflected the will of in average 10 to 20% of their people.

    Actually I am not concerned about the Soviet officers.

    Disappointing statement.

    The Russians were an Empire and as an empire they supressed freedom but they gave it up without a fight contrary to what Nazi Germany did.

    The Russians undoutedly supressed democracy and freedom, made mistakes, but compare them to Hitler is totally foolish, Stalin was a mad man but not to the level of Hitler, Hitler basicly is responsable for 50 million people dead, Stanlin was a butcher but compared to Hitler well he was less evil.

    Droping a bomb on Hiroshima was not exactly something Jesus Christ would recomend though and the Vietnamese would not think the USAf was exactly the best proof of Christian love of western missionaries.

    Russian aircraft are as good as any Western aircraft if we see the An-124

    we can see that the Soviets in aerospace technology do not stand behind the West and once Russia unveils the fifth generation fighter we will see they still are capable
    http://www.rusaki.de/media/images/An-124-100_1.jpg

    in reply to: Propoganda versus reality #2567900
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    what do you mean by

    I have to smile. We do no longer discuss a Flogger claim over Bagdad or central Iraq, but an incident more than 400 km away.
    The discussion is around a few kilometers of the northern Kuwaiti border. If the crew gave Kuwait or Kuwait-City did change nothing.
    The official borderline between occupied Kuwait and southern Iraq was marked with fences in the desert at best. None villages there, to be worth kept in the memory of soldiers.
    If someone stick to a map, he has to show the capability to read that really!
    The distance between Basra and the Kuwaiti-border is less than 50 km.
    To get an idea about the present country-side, Google-earth is of help. Also a good tool for distances.
    The key military installation along-side the highway to Kuwait were the prime targets.
    As General Colin Powell, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, explains the roots of coalition strategy. It was a simple plan:”We’re going to cut them off, and then we’re going to kill them”. Hereby pointing to a circle covering southern Iraq/Basra and Kuwait.

    Sens We are simply trying to decide which account is the most likely telling the truth.

    The russian account only is truth if the Panavia Tornado was shot down in Iraq and the Western one if it was shot down in Kuwait

    You have several options for each account to be truth, for the Russian account to be truth you have the different events and explanations:

    A)The Panavia Tornado was shot down in the Iraqi desert near to Baghdad to some degree
    B)Cocciolone claims on Iraqi TV of the target been in Southern Iraq was right
    C)The phrase -” atterrando nella piena oscurità del deserto Iracheno “- means that they were capture in Iraq and not in Kuwait
    D)Bellini`s account is a Fabrication to slander the Iraqi TV interview as propaganda and a lie.
    E)The chaff flare were used to jam a IR or radar guidance of a AAM launched by the MiG-23

    The Western account it`s right only if Iraqi desert also means in the phrase -” atterrando nella piena oscurità del deserto Iracheno “- the desert close to Kuwait city and Cociolone`s statement of the target been in Southern Iraq meant also a Target close to Kuwait city

    I doubt the western account under geographical terms and the Russian one due to the fact Bellini claims by himself been shot down in Kuwait and not in Southern Iraq

    There is a third option and that is there were two Italian Panavia Tornadoes shot down but i guess that is a not very likely possibility

    If we check this webpaeg by remote it is:

    Italian Air Force Captain Maurizio Cocciolone was the pilot of a Tornado GR1
    fighter/bomber which flew in the first wave of strikes. During the strike,
    two Italian fighter jets were shot down, including Cocciolone’s Toronado. It
    is not possible from early reports to determine the exact locations of the
    losses.

    from Biography Maurizio Cocciolone

    in reply to: blinders and fiddlers #2568265
    MiG-23MLD
    Participant

    Tu-128

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