I don’t think you read any Chinese reports to make claims on what their viewpoints are as well as the reasons for doing this and that. Their issues are much like everyone else though; the MiG-21 has some serious drawbacks, starting with a very short range that permits far too little loiter and station time. Unlike the Russians, which is facing their potential enemies with nothing but a land border, the Chinese is facing a sea. Another problem is the propensity for the aircraft to commit into flat spins, and the way it departs from controllability is sudden.
Experimental aircraft is very far from an operational aircraft because the latter has at least a minimum requirement of reliability. There is a reason why the engines you mentioned remained experimental.
That is not true, the USSR advanced very fast in engine designs, by 1961 they already had the R-15, so your theory is not accurate.
The MiG-19 in the SM-12 guise was far more advanced than any chinese MiG-19 built in 1960, however the Russians settled for a MiG-21 type.
You know perfectly that the SM-12 is half way to a MiG-21, already has the inlet, the Ye-2 had the engines but not the wings, the Ye-6 already is a MiG-21
China built from 1970s to the 1980s the J-8 a very simple fighter even not a dogfighter, Russia experimented with such aircraft in the late 1950s too. by 1964 they already had the Su-15.
source of the picture http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/sm12pm.html
However as the article mentions both the MiG-21 and MiG-23 were not really very advanced dogfighters, the LERXed F-5 was more agile at low subsonic speeds.
The MiG-19 lacks any advanced feature seen in the F-5 too in terms of wing design.
China was not ahead of Russia in MiG design because russia built more advanced designs and only probably now they have catch up with russia if russia does not built the PAK FA and China builds something better but still the MiG-29OVT and Su-35 are super agile.
But in 1965, the MiG-21 was the best fighter Russia had
The MiG-19 and J-6 was certainly difficult to fly. No less than General Han Decai admitted it adding “extremely” to it. On the other hand he finds the MiG-17/J-5 and the J-7 delightful to fly. For some reason the Q-5 managed to correct the J-6’s flying quirks, and today still remains a popular plane to fly in the PLAAF.
The PAF had J-6s for forty years. When they first had J-7s, the J-6s were not replaced, and kept the J-6s simultaneously going with the J-7s for two decades, and they were not replaced until this decade.
Likewise, the J-7 failed to replace the J-6 in PLAAF service despite having several hundred J-7A/B built and there was resistance in changing to the J-7 prior to the -E version which had the double delta wings and the R-13-300 derivate engine. Pilots loved the power, its fast turn rate at low altitudes, and the multiple cannons, as many as three while the J-7 only had one, though it should be noted that the PLAAF was probably among the last major air forces in the world to discard the dogfight mentality, if not the romantic idea of it. The J-7C/D based on the MiG-21MF was the most unpopular one of all, criticized for its high wing loading.
During the sixties during the Vietnam War, a number of US aircraft were shot down by J-5s and J-6s, including Phantoms. The most celebrated kill was an RF-104, or reconnaissance Starfighter. Not an easy plane to catch, it was done by a J-6. Pilot survived and returned to the US when the US broke the chill with China when Mao and Nixon met.
The Russians did experiment even before any chinese model with advanced engines in the MiG-19, in the late 1950s already the MiG-19 SM-51 had engines of 3800kgf of thrust, China never surpassed the russians in the design of MiG aircraft.
Some MiG-19 experimental variants got to speeds of almost Mach 1.9 with the use of MiG-21 styled cone inlets
source of the picture
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/sm12pm.html
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/sm12pmu.html
The MiG-19 SM-12 variant was fast and the predecesor to the Ye-2 and Ye-4 from which the Ye-6 or MiG-21 was derivated.
The Russians admit the F-5 was more maneouvrable than their own MiG-23M and MiG-21Bis at speeds below 750km/h, and due to the aerodynamics integrated into the F-5, but at speeds of 800km/h the F-5 was not better therefore the testing of the F-5 in the former USSR was the based for the MiG-29 and Su-27 since the F-5 has LERXes.
However the reason China was not satisfied with the MiG-21 was simply they dragged too long with an old aircraft and they did not design anything better until they took the J-10 design enterprise.
From CDF:
What beautiful aircraft are the J-10Bs, from my point of view the most beautiful chinese aircraft i`ve ever seen
There you go yet again inventing things. Where have I ever posted that any MiG-23 was carrying R-24Ts? All I have stated it that the MLs were in service before the events in 1989.
The videos/audio was released for a specific purpose. Why is that so hard for you to understand? The images taken are not for the purpose of aviation enthusiasts. In my 22 years in the military I’ve seen hundreds of intercept images and vidoes that have never seen the light of day in the public eye. The situation for Russia, and other nations, will be the same. They exist in the archives at extremely low classification, but simply have no requirement to be published. Why is that so hard to understand?
Whatever the intention of the MiG-23 pilots they simply were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Regardless of MiG-23 variant, was their intention simply for a bit of sparring? Who knows? Regardless of type/variant it quickly went pear-shaped for the MiG-23 pilots. Their search and rescue services were out for several days, but nothing was apparently ever recovered.
TJ
Seems you are not even satisfied with the supposedly original head up sight images taken from one of the tomcats, the reality is very difficult you prove the MiG-23s shot down by those Tomcats were MiG-23MLs and not MiG-23MS.
If they were MiG-23MS as Firebar says and i also believe they were, their AA-2s were not match for a F-14s AIM-9s and the only chance they got was getting very close to the F-14 if they did indeed have hostile intent.
That also explains why they did not fire any missile at longer ranges and all the pictures show MiG-23MS
It is possible they got the MiG-23MLs much later, but i throw you a challenge prove with a russian source Libya got those MiG-23MLs before January 1989.
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