I get fun thinking about Sarah Palin saying she’s sympathizes with Joe the Plumber and the Middle Class while wearing her four figure dollars dresses from Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue.

All the politicans are the same, they defend the poor just to live as the rich do, nowhere they are really honest and very few politicians are really honest, a few maybe only Gandhi but the vast of them are a bunch of hypocrites who decieve the masses with words of justice while they still represent the same system they critize.

If the F-22 survives has to do more with the clout an aerospace company has in the ruling class of a country like Artem Mikoyan did in the stalin and soviet years thank to his brother Anastas Mikoyan

Thinking a politician is going to change a nation is only a dream of naive people.

Obama is not going change anything, the ruling clases decide everything before even a president is elected.

In the US you have two options already selected, two options that eventually will do the same politics

You don’t think that perhaps Israel has a better air force because there is a more credible threat that can be dealt with by the Air Force?

Your hypothesis is ridiculous. An air force is powerful because it can build it’s own weapons? Really?

And did you really just compare Romania to Paraguay? Next are we going to compare Fiji and Iceland?

Mi hypothesis is not unreal, yours is, you lack any real historical and political evidence.

All the great powers have built and do build their own weapons and when they sell their weapons only sell mostly downgraded versions, and economically and technologically they want to remain as the only manufactures of high tech aircraft and they will try to keep a market for their own, Boeing will try always to remain as top seller as Sukhoi will, Russia took most of the weapon manufacturing capability from the former Soviet republics and the US will do the same even to England, Israel or Japan since an F-2 is more expensive than an original F-16 despite it is not very different than it, no F-22 has been offered to England or Israel and the F-35 has export restrictions and has some limits to tech transfers.

International lead programs do exist though but only as a way to perpetuate militarism and make more affordable weapons for the international markets, although still some technologies won`t be transfered

Examples:The US policy to Latin America always limited technology transfers and avoided selling high tech weapons.

Russia sold mostly downgraded weapons to the former Warsaw pact states and left the former Soviet republics without the bulk of the weapons manufacturing capability.

Most aircraft manufactures have tech restrictions when they export weapons

The USSR mostly sold very downgraded weapons to the african and middle eastern countries.

The US has kept Japan buying american aircraft and limiting the domestic Japanese military industries.

The US is unwilling to sell priority technologies even to England in the JSF program.

Russia did not sell the most advanced Su-27 version to China.

The Tu-22M was not exported or offered when it was new only when it has become almost obsolte it has been offered for the market.

France pull out of the Eurofighter program just to remain capable of making its own weapons in the form of the Rafale
Simply by economics the main porpuse of an air force is to have its own weapons and do not allow potential enemies build their own weapons first because this ensures a market and a less capable enemy than their own.

So with this you can see the great powers do try to control where air wars do happen and what weapons are available when they happen

Actually I’d argue that it’s not what you’ve got, but rather how you use it. Some countries when being attacked seem to either not use most of the capabilities or use them extremely badly, by not making them survivable and not using them against suitable targets.

I do not agree so much with you for the following reason:

Training is directly related to technological prowess, the best trained air forces have also the ability to build their own equipment and also the ability to make first class weaponry

The best air forces in the world obviously make their own equipment and the top 10 air forces of the world make the most advanced aircraft.

Russia, the USA, China, France, England, Germany, Italy, India, Swededn, South Africa, Ukraine, Japan, Spain, Argentina, South Korea, Romania, Israel, Brazil are some of the best air forces in the world and all of them build their own equipment.

Huh? History is a construct on mankinds mind. It is not real, a fact, stable, unstable etc.
It is what we collectively agree what it is.

I have no idea what your talking about history being stable? History is constantly changing as we uncover new ideas, items, clues etc.

Uhmm……. well if you read what basicly are considered as historical facts and historical trends, then you can see that sociology, anthropology and other sicences want to make a science of History as Math or Biology are.

However we can see several current trends in the aircraft industry and current political situation.

By stable i meant history is not like most sciences where predictability is a major component of a science, major wars are basicly unpredictable and we can say the same about minor wars, we can guess what are the most possible trends.

let us see

major air powers will try to get unmanned and manned stealth aircraft.

China, Europe, Russia, the US and India will invest heavely in such systems to defeat minor air forces.

other air forces like the Brazilian air force will probably continue with less ambitious aircraft programs but will try to consolidate their aircraft manufaturing industries, in this group we find Israel and perhaps Iran and Ukraine.

other air forces will rely most likely on earlier generation MiG-29s, Su-27s and F-16s, extensive use of SAMs will be a must but these air forces can not fight wars for long years unless they have good reserves of foreign currency.

Most likely conflicts are in the middle east for oil and the former USSR republics where russia will try to bully her smaller neighbourghs, there is very a slight y posibility of conflict in south america and a few regional conflicts in Africa.

Eastern Asia can only the scenario for a nuclear confrontation so i do not think there is going to be a war there

[QUOTE=flex297;1312380]A sequence of pics of (ex-)Algerian MiG-29SMT FC-14 #3017

beautiful pictures really nice pictures i love this aircraft

The ones I do see suffer from that kind of asymmetric warfare are the civilians in Lebanon, Iraq and Aghanistian at first. I agree, that the western forces have to stay away from that areas as quick as possible and let enjoy the people there their local leadership. 😀

If you read the history of Israel you will know they have had the same problems when incompetent politicians have taken Israel into wrong polices and sometimes in ancient times have created even the destruction of the own the Israeli state

They lost to quantity. The north had superior numbers, superior firepower, & superior logistics. More men, more guns, more food & ammunition & boots & clothes & blankets.

If numbers & national incomes had been equal, the north would probably have lost.

You are a very confused person.

You cannot distinguish between the scientific accomplishments of a nation, & the technological levels of the weapons it can afford. You cannot distinguish a victory won by superior numbers & attrition from one won by superior technology.

You make false assumptions, e.g. that because a state has more industry than another, the technological level of its armed forces is therefore higher.

You actually make mutually incompatible false assumptions, as in the case of Israels early wars, where (in direct contradiction to your assumptions about the US civil war) you assume that despite having less industry than its combined opponents, Israels armed forces had a higher technological level. Which reminds me – tell me, where did the Yishuv get all the high-tech weaponry you claim it had in 1948?

man please all these is pure fantasy of yours, in 1948 most arab states were in disarray, in the same chaotic state that Israel was, all of these states were puppets of the superpowers of then, most of the arab states did not posess real advantages or the real will to crush Israel.

Israel is not a nation can not be defeated, it has been beaten, even enslaved and humilated by their ancient enemies, in 1948 Israel had many European immigrants many of which were experienced people in many fields and the Arabs lacked even political unity.

however nowadays Israel as many other nations can not be defeated since the threat of nuclear war is a possibility few want to find in a war.

Most wars have forces with similar weaponry.

In WWI and WWII most major powers were at the same level and the victory and defeat has more to do with politics than technology, however the US beated all the major WWII powers by making a nuclear bomb, however Germany developed guided missiles, so there was no real supremacy by any power, however when a technology was developed and had superior performance it changed history abd open a new way of fighting in example the plane or the machine gun, in our times is the F-22 is one of the most promising technologies to be adopted in future battlefileds