I do think the original post was a thinly veiled attempt to argue about this all over again.

No, it wasn’t, and that’s a rather bold accusation if I may say so.

It’s possible you didn’t read my initial post properly, and missed my final words:-

(Maybe the Mods might want to lock this thread so it doesn’t go down the road of the other two).

As the other two threads had been locked, I thought those that wanted to find out more could do so from the link I posted, with hopefully no more discussion or new posts on the subject due to the way the other threads went, as I pointed out in my initial post.

And there was no need to ‘argue’ about it again. This thread was a pointer to a site with a lot of information on the accident, and not intended to restart discussion on it. :rolleyes:

Whilst there has been some interesting comments in the thread, I agree that there have also been some rather inaccurate & ill-informed ones too, but that will always happen whenever an accident occurs or is discussed (be it car, aeroplane, or whatever).

Cheers

Paul

Bradburger,
Your opening paragraph in your response #47 rather confirms my query. At Biggin the pilot couldn’t be contacted yet at Duxford he was. Presumably the monitoring group were in/on the Control Tower at Duxford but weren’t at Biggin. I’d just like to know if airshow rules now insist on the “watchers” having a direct line to the pilots to “pull” their display if it isn’t going to plan and if the procedure is in the pre-show briefing.

I’m sure one of the recommendations made by the AAIB was to have a direct line to the tower, especially at airfields like Biggin.
At Duxford, the commentary point is beside the tower, and I’m assuming this area is where the ‘watchers’ would be located.
The problem at Biggin, is that the tower is across the other side of the airfield……not crowd centre.

The tower at Biggin is on the other side of the display line as the Bump mentions, and therefore presumably well away from the Flying Control Committee. The AAIB report on the accident says that the FCC did have a telephone to talk to the display director, but it seems a ‘gremlin’ on the day caused it to not function, and attempts to raise the tower on a radio failed also.

A Flying Display Committee was established at the airshow to monitor the display standards and ensure that the safety regulations were not infringed. A system was in place whereby a committee member could contact Air Traffic Control (ATC) and arrange for a display to be stopped if they considered safety was being compromised. Because the ATC tower was located on the opposite side of the runway from the crowd line, communication was to be by telephone or radio. On this occasion, during the Kingcobra’s display, a committee member became concerned by the loss of control at the apex of the first rolling climbing manoeuvre. The committee member attempted to contact ATC five times by radio and the Display Director twice by telephone but he was unable to get an answer.

The report does state that a direct telephone line had been installed (as the Bump says) to prevent this from happening again.

Ozplane mentions a Corsair’s display being stopped at Flying Legends last year, but it was actually the Wildcat/Hellcat tailchase sequence. From what a remember, the Wildcat appeared to lose position during a half cuban at the western end of the airfield. I seem to recall it did a half roll to the right at the top of the manoeuvre and pulled through away from the field before disappearing out of site. A few minutes later, it flew overhead the crowd (over the TFC enclosure where I was standing) to try and rejoin the Hellcat, and that’s when the FCC stopped the display.

Cheers

Paul

There is one element that I don’t know how it’s been addressed in display flying. The P-63 at Biggin Hill was felt by the ground observers to be performing outside it’s safety zone so they decided to stop it’s display. However they couldn’t contact the Tower and the aircraft crashed before the aircraft was contacted. I believe something similar happened last year at Legends (?) when the French Corsair over flew the crowd but in that case he was contacted so perhaps I’ve answered my own question. What are the rules in the case of perceived unsafe flying?

ozplane,

Regarding the TFC P-63 accident at Biggin, the AAIB report says that a member of the flying control commitee tried to make contact with the tower to stop the display after the aircraft had departed from an earlier manouver, but despite at least 5 attempts by phone and radio, for some reason they failed, and therefore the display continued with tragic results.

This accident is a good example of the ‘Human Factor’ that is not often taken into account when discussing airshow accidents.

We know that Guy Bancroft-Wilson was a very experienced pilot & display pilot, yet for some unknown reason, continued to display after losing control earlier on in the display, and more interestingly during the top of the fatal loop when the aircraft started to depart, appeared to apply ‘pro spin’ controls (as seen on the video footage & mentioned it the AAIB report), as opposed trying to stop the departure.

It would seem that it is often the case in previous accidents also, that for some inexplicable reason, a usually competent and experienced pilot has made fatal errors.

Personally, I think airshow safety for pilots, aircrew, & the public, has come along way since the Don Bullock accident, and lessons have been learned from more recent ones also.

But in the end, no matter how much safety you plan and implement, and regulations you stick too, unfortunately there is nothing that will stop a pilot from getting it wrong one day, regardless of how many hours or types he’s flown.

It seems it’s just another fascinating aspect of human nature I’m afraid.

Cheers

Paul