1982, immediately after the Falklands, Sir John Knot, then Defence Secretary, stated at a press conference something like:
“it is difficult to envisage a situation where we could ever have too many helicopters”.
Ah John Nott. How did Sir Robin Day refer to him? Oh yes, something like ‘a here today and, if I may say, gone tomorrow politician’ at which point Nott took off his lapel microphone and flounced out of the studio.
Brummies!!!!!!!!!!
Regards,
kev35 (From one of the darker fringes of the Black Country.)
Excuse me?
I’m actually Scottish via Hampshire and as for Birmingham my old headmaster used to say when walking through classes as he did ‘just passing through, boys, just passing through”.
LOL
Might as well carry on talking about pigeons as the O.P. has just visited the Forum without giving us the benefit of his location, so maybe his problem has ‘flown away’.:)
I have to say that, as a dyed in the wool mil fan myself, I love aircraft and aviation in all its formats be they civil or military.
However, the OP appears to have views on mil aviation (albeit from a Daily Telegraph type view point) but has forgotten/didn’t know about RIAT Fairford being on and apparently hates light aircraft.
What sort of people are we attracting these days? :confused:
Indeed you are spot on here, the article was utter nonsense and an unwarrented non-factual attack on our armed services. A pathetic farce of a news article (just like the “bike locks secure nukes” BS the BBC was hyping up a while back http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=75988&highlight=lock+nuclear
An attack on our armed services and MOD by the father of someone who died in the conflict to be precise
Who remembers the Greenham show when we had the cloudburst on the saturday morning but it cleared up by the afternoon. I was working on a stand and I remember one guy getting quite annoyed that we wouldn’t uncover some of our books in the deluge for him to browse. That and the boxes of kits floating down the taxiway. That might have been the Canberra year.
I would never claim the BBC is perfect, but as a news organisation its one of the best and most reliable. Every news agency has an angle or “bias”, all reporters have baggage and opinions. Would the “European Jewish Press” you quoted have reported a pro-jewish/ anti-palestine bias in the same way? Of course not, this story and its angle is an interest story for them. The “Cut and Shunt” story was reported because-
a) The Helicopter debate is one of the top stories of the week.
b) The quoted man has a direct interest and a relevant angle on the story in a week when we have had the heighest weekly death toll.
c) as I outlined above, this story is a real issue, why should the government rely on our techies to rebuild a wreck when they should be just buying a replacement chinook.
d) The story does not in any way have the BBC directly attacking the RAF, the quoted man does. The MOD is culpable as they direct policy and made the excutive decision that money should be spent supplying our troops with a rebuild rather than a new helicopter.
I agree totally with you and I would probably swap points (a) and (b) in terms of importance.
Was it mentioned on the BBC? If not, then why…?:diablo:
Well I won’t harp on about this subject after this post but you BBC lovers need to read the article again and notice
Sentances such as“If you gave them flip flops and catapults they’d still go out there and do the job for us, but we don’t support our men.”
But Mr Sadler said it was a “real scandal” and showed a lack of support for the troops fighting in Afghanistan.
“Mr Sadler’s son, a trooper in the Honourable Artillery Company, was killed when his non-armoured Land Rover hit a mine.”
“An admission that a “cut and shut” helicopter was used in Afghanistan has angered the father of a dead soldier.”
All of these sentances were left in the article for a reason and if you cannot figure that out I feel bad for you.
But the bigger question is why do the article at all? The BBC know very what they are printing and here they are guilty of printing antiwar propaganda with no factual basis, unless of course you believe the Guy they quoted to be a rellibale and informed source. I imagine you guys are going to try and claim this is fair coverage of the Afghan conflict when the reality is they have printed a pack of sensationalist lies.
I have no issue with the article or the way the BBC handled it, I only posted it here to highlight a view that despite there being a lack of helicopters in Afghanistan the MOD had needed to ‘withdraw it’ for reasons unspecified (normal service rotation perhaps?).
The comments mentioned above were not made by the BBC and clearly a grieving father has every right to make these sort of statements and the BBC were right (given his previous approaches to the MOD et al to publicise the perceived issue) to highlight them.
I could point you to a thread in the General Aviation forum where the BBC were clearly wrong and sensationalist but I will leave you to find it for yourself.
What like the KC-97 at Greenham? I’d go for that over any modern mil-jet any day of the week
The irony is the Blackhawk could of been service now with the RAF having replaced the Puma in the 90’s.
Westlands had licenced production rights and it was the intended Puma replacement, peace dividend put pays to that and the money men in the UK gov efectively killed the idea forcing the Puma (already a type due replacement in the late 80’s to soldier on). Technically licenced production was for a Middle Eastern customer (Saudi Arabia as part of Al Yammarah) but it was also marked as a Puma replacement, with the line set up in the UK it was a logical move! Not that the money men were entirely to blame, the RAF didn’t want it as they wanted Chinooks…heard that before somewhere!
Out of interest here is a video of the Blackhawk registered to Westlands doing a weapons demo you can just make out the Westlands logo on her door:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xm0r_blackhawk-weapons-test_politics
And from Augusta Westlands history page:
That will be the one and only WS-70 ZG468 which ended up with a customer in the Gulf region
So, the Su-25SMs force suffered a 20% loss rate and an overall 50% mission killed rate/out of the war tally.
I don’t think I need add futher comment.
So, tell me than. The US Army took a whole pile of Apaches to Kosovo and after the one crashed in training, just how many did they put into operation there?
No political axe to grind on my part :confused:
If you compare the camouflage in Tim’s picture to the Ebay picture, they just about line up exactly looking through my glasses, so not too sure what you mean?
The marking at the top of the fin – is it an an aerial that is visible in the first picture but not in the last picture?
OK, with the passge of time i may have lost the plot but is what is being said here that the aircraft in the original photograph coded DX and the aircraft in Chox’s post coded DY the same aircraft XS458?
If so, then they must have repainted the top of the fin as well as changing/amending the code because there is a difference in the paintwork.
Or am I being blonde (or grey/silver in my case) ?
The latest set of accounts are now on the Charity Commission website. Remember that whilst the financial figures are as up to Jul 31 2008 the commentary deals with 2009 issues as well.