BlackArcherThe F-15 is an air superiority fighter because aside from the required avionics and loiter time, it has the ammo storage to engage multiple times.
Each F-15 will fire 6 BVR missiles at least before it has to knife it out.
A pair of F-15s 12 BVR missiles before they have to knife it out.Taking into account that the F-15 is capable of launching similar quality missiles as the T-50, there is an engagement area where a pair of F-15s has
33% more ammo and hence the corresponding higher probability for a kill associated with that extra ammo...
If you start taking these things into account you see why having even two missiles extra on board can mean a lot
You’re not taking into account that the F-15 carries all its weapons externally. the F-15 Silent Eagle carries 4 internally, but the rest are all external. if you want to call the F-15 as an Air Superiority fighter because of how many missiles it can carry, then what prevents the PAK-FA from carrying 4 BVR AAMs internally and another 4 externally plus a couple of WVR AAMs?
How does the F-22 become an Air Superiority fighter when it carries only 6 AMRAAMs + 2 AIM-9s internally?
BlackArcherI recall Boeing leaving the competition very early (they considered to offer the SH), making a cryptic statement that “Switzerland should choose Gripen” or something similar. I recall it because it is rather unusual to suggest to a country that they should buy a specific competitor’s product.
They didn’t say anything of that sort. They simply said that the Super Hornet was overkill for the requirements that the Swiss Air Force had stated for the F-5 replacement and consequently they wouldn’t participate in the bid. Why would they suggest to the Swiss Air Force to buy any other fighter in particular?
BlackArcherIAF’s South Western Air Command is to induct new Mi-17V5 squadron at Jodhpur, new MPRs to be deployed at Jaisalmer air base and a new squadron (doesn’t say what type) to be inducted at Phalodi air base in the western state of Rajasthan. Also Deesa will be a new air base that will be developed in Gujarat, along the western border with Pakistan.
Interesting news about the Tejas Mk1 participating in the live fire demonstration of the Air Force at Pokhran next year (similar to Vayu Shakti 2010).
JODHPUR: Indian Air Force will deploy medium power radars and advanced helicopters in the western sector in order to strengthen its preparedness along the Indo-Pak border in Rajasthan.
While Jodhpur airbase will soon have a squadron of transport helicopters Mi-17 V5, medium power radars would also be deployed at Jaisalmer airbase, Air Marshal Anjan Kumar Gogoi, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, South-Western Air command, said at a press conference here.
Gogoi said that the new squadron at Phalodi will be ready by October this year.
Admitting that the SW air command has shortage of transport aircraft, he said that it will also be looked into.
The Air Marshal also informed that Deesa airbase in north Gujarat will soon become a training-cum-operational base.
About the Air Force show to be held in February next year in Pokharan firing range in Jaisalmer, he said that Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas will display its capabilities for the first time.
Apart from that, about 100 planes of different varieties would display their power capabilities in the firepower demonstration event.
BlackArcher30 year guarantee?. In 30 years there would 2b people in India.
Taiwan, Turkey, Saudi, Japan, China, UK far wealthier countries than India. are used as bargaining chip by US in various situations.
India is not so much wealthy that it can simultaneously maintain East & West equipment.Price of modern Chinook is so high that you can buy Twice many Mi-26T2 so even with 50% reliability Mi-26T2 will be fine. and MI-26 just like any Russian helicopter has long future as on Mi-26 basis new heavy lift helicopter is being created.
I know that you’re a troll and I never waste my time reading the garbage you write. Kindly ignore my posts and don’t bother to reply to them.
BlackArcherhttp://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article3804273.ece
The fact that a Russian official should know what should be secretive information, i.e. the state of the discussions between the MoD and French officials goes to show how deeply entrenched they are in the inner circles of the MoD and even the services.
We’ll see how true his assertions are, hopefully by the end of the year.
BlackArcherI realise that Mi-26 hasn’t had the best record to date in Indian service, but I don’t share your apparent conviction that the problems necessarily extend to aircraft built two decades later.
well, once bitten, twice shy. And having spoken to people in the forces and those who’ve spoken to people in the forces, things are still not that great when it comes to spares and support for Russian equipment. Things are promised and then those promises are not delivered on. There are many examples of that, such as the issues we’ve seen on the T-90 gun barrel ToT which has led to production lagging at Avadi.
I believe the IAF would be better served buying a heavy lift helicopter that actually is guaranteed reliable (and no one will argue about the Chinook being reliable) and useful in more situations than just airlifting outsize loads. Besides, what’s the production run for the Mi-26T? How many militaries operate it and how do we know that the spares/support is going to be issue free over 30 years of operations? Can it even operate for that many years as opposed to the original Mi-26 that had a service life of just 1200 hrs/8 years ?!
The only forseeable problem with the Chinook is the possibility of sanctions, but now that the IAF and IN are looking to induct so many different US platforms and weapons, I think that this threat isn’t considered to be very likely.
BlackArcherWhy?
Because the Mi-26 has been a white elephant in IAF service. Mostly down with absent spares, its hardly been very relevant operationally except for a few exceptional occasions that most people will point to. the Chinook on the other hand, is a reliable aircraft with a very well established logistics and support chain that will ensure that the aircraft meets the reliability and uptime expectations of the IAF.
Just updating the Mi-26 platform with digital avionics does not obviate the fact that it isn’t as versatile a platform as the Chinook. Also, look at the service life of the original Mi-26. Just 1200 hours/8 years as opposed to 20+ years for the Chinook! I think the results of the evaluation will bear that out.
The Mi-26 was procured to meet the Heavy Lift requirements of the IAF. A requirement of six helicopters was projected and the first two Helicopters were procured at a cost of Rs 18 Cr each in May 1986. No. 126 Helicopter Flight was raised the same month to operate the type. The Flight has a Unit Establishment of 18 Officers, 142 airmen and 28 NCs(E) and four Helicopters. The other two helicopters were procured and inducted in February 1989 at a cost of approx Rs 22.71 Cr each. Due to low utilisation, the plan to procure two more helicopters was dropped. For the total fleet of four helicopters, twelve engines were procured.
Serviceability of the Helicopter suffered in the 90s, at one point of time in 1995-96, as many as three of the four helicopters remaining on ground. Serviceability gradually fell in the mid 90s from a high of 61% down to 40%. The helicopters also remained underutilized. Against a projected utilization rate of 50 hours per month per helicopter, the average utilization hovered around 11 to 22 hours per month.
BlackArcherMiG-29M2 to be correct, as MiG-35 is very different. :p
Indeed, the MiG-35 will have the Zhuk-AE AESA whereas the MiG-29M2 will feature the MiG-29K based Zhuk-ME2 radar.
BlackArcherOnce the contracts are signed, the details will emerge. But imho, the FGFA is not only the version tailor made for the IAF, but will become the definitive export version. The Russkies will not be exporting the RuAF version (PAK-FA) to anyone (even the IAF’s FGFA will have a variant of the Stage 2 engine) so the Indian investment, currently reported as $11bn, is to develop the PAK-FA into the FGFA and it matters not whether the FGFA is built in Russia or exclusively in India, as the Indians will receive significant royalties/return on their investment.
$11 billion to customize a PAK-FA into a FGFA? I wish they’d spend three fourths of that money on the AMCA instead and get full ownership of the IP they developed.
Even so, its important that for such a large investment, there be returns. Some Russian posters seem to think that its just a privilege that we get to spend money to be a part of the PAK-FA program (talk about being patronising!) since India’s aerospace industry lags Russia’s by decades.
If so, then those billions should be spent on our own aerospace industry both public and private, getting partnerships that matter, where technology is gained and first hand experience is developed. Rather than funding some one else’s gains. the LCA program has been painful, but without that, India would be nowhere as far as its aerospace industry goes. What would’ve been the state of the Indian aerospace industry if all it did was pay for R&D on a customized MiG-29 or Su-30 and try to live off the royalties/revenues from any IP it shared on those platforms?
Besides, without an Indian partner, the Russians would be short of some 216 firm orders and such numbers and such firm backing mean a lot for any program. Is even the RuAF ordering that many PAK-FAs? I can bet my bottom dollar that the US would be more than happy to fill those numbers with the F-35. .
Think of where the F-22 would be today if the US Govt. had allowed, or LM had been open to, a similar programme with Japan, Australia, Israel etc.
Indeed, LM must be ruing the fact that such a partnership couldn’t be developed further. Would’ve brought the unit costs down, increased equipment integration flexibility since each partner would want some customization, and bring in a lot of revenue over 30 years of operation.
Also, aside from the Indigenous systems for the FGFA, India is being courted for many defence-related ‘technology partnerships’ especially with western defence firms, you can expect any relevant systems to migrate to the FGFA which will only serve to increase its export appeal- building on the customisation approach pioneered by Sukhoi with the Su-30MKI.
There may also be provisions for India to become a maintenance, repair and overhaul hub for export customers. Crossover tech. and cost benefits for ‘Super-30’ upgrades has already been mentioned.
I hope so, but none of this is certain as of now.
BlackArcherApache deal for the IAF very soon. Hope that the deal for the heavy lift helicopter goes to the Chinook rather than the Mi-26T.
NEW DELHI: India is getting ready to order 22 heavy-duty Apache helicopters for around $1.4 billion, in what will be yet another big defence deal to be bagged by the US.
..
In the battle for the attack helicopters, Boeing’s AH-64 D Apache Longbow met all air staff qualitative requirements during the field trials conducted by the IAF, while the Russian Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant’s Mi-28 Havoc failed to pass muster.
“It’s just a matter of time before the contract is inked for the Apaches after final commercial negotiations. Most of the hurdles have been cleared,” a defence ministry official said. The US and Russia are also locked in battle to supply 15 heavy-lift helicopters to IAF, with the Boeing-manufactured Chinooks pitted against the Russian Mi-26 choppers.
..
The impending $1.4 billion deal for the 22 Apaches will also include the supply of 812 AGM-114 L-3 Hellfire Longbow missiles, 542 AGM-114 R-3 Hellfire-II missiles, 245 Stinger Block I-92 H missiles and 12 AN/APG-78 fire-control radars.
Among the other military aviation deals already bagged by the US are the $4.1 bn contract for 10 C-17 Globemaster-III strategic airlift aircraft, $2.1 billion for eight P-8 I maritime patrol aircraft and $962 million for six C-130 J ‘Super Hercules” planes.
BlackArcher“And finally, the 50% investment made at this stage will also translate into 50% by value for all export orders flowing to India.”
50%? Really?
If not, then why invest 50%? Why not just pay for license production like the Su-30MKI or the Rafale?
BlackArcherYou cannot “co-own” IPRs if your input for particular systems was zero. This may be a de facto grandiose licensed co-production agreement, but so what? Don’t you think the Indian Aerospace industry will derive any benefit from what, by all accounts, will be indigenous (licensed) production of the airframe?
Even if many components like the engines and radar will continue to be sourced from Russia, this is a whole different world to the licensed assembly of kits like the Su-30MKI. Take note of the significant differences of the respective IOC dates- that’s for a reason, the sums are huge- for a reason.
No one asks to co-own IPR developed by Russia. But, to suggest that Russia can go on and sell the PAK-FA to others without involving a partner who has paid for R&D implies that the PAK-FA is solely Russian and that the FGFA will be solely an Indian variant. And if that is the case, then the Indians should then pay money only for R&D into those parts/equipment/software that the FGFA will be equipped with. The rest of the PAK-FA will anyway be licensed and a license fee can be paid for those.
BTW, the Su-30MKI isn’t assembled from kits. HAL started manufacturing MKIs from raw material stage a while ago.
Do you think the Italians will derive similar benefits by having an F-35 assembly line? Obviously not. Even worse do you think the US would be ready to open an Indian production line for the F-35, if they selected it? Definitely not! Remember, the US is not happy to even share source code with the JSF’s Tier 1 partners, notwithstanding ‘partner’ owned EMD aircraft will remain in the US!
How much do you think the Italians have paid towards being partners in the F-35 program? If the amount that the Italians paid is the same as the Indians have and are going to pay for partnership, then I’d be happy with just license manufacture of the FGFA.
BlackArcherMeeh:) what do you suggest then?
Sukhoi should just give it all away for a nickle.. The Pak-Fa tech is hard earned and not for free, not even India.
But to compair it to IAF getting F-35 is very much incorrect.India get to join the test phase of the FGFA.
If it were F-35, they would not even get this far..
yeah, pay billions of $ to “join” the test phase of the FGFA..and do what with that? No one is asking to part with technology for a “nickle”. It’s billions of $, much more than any other country would be willing to pay for a partnership in a program of this sort. Those who can go it alone do, like China, those who cannot, partner. But if the tangible benefits don’t show up in the form of actual participation in the program and gain in technology, then why bother to partner at all? Why not just cut the order down to 126 units and spend the rest on the F-35?
I’m sure that the attitude you’re displaying doesn’t really show up where it matters. If it did, I’m not sure that the GoI would be willing to put up serious money on a sham partnership.
BlackArcher“(But probably no re-export licences though; this ‘Indo-Russian’ fighter is a lot more Russian than Indian after all)”
Did you honestly expect this? Taking one look at the Tejas program I think makes it clear that India would not be the source of most critical program components. And seeing how important PAK-FA is for Russia, an export license is a wild dream at best.
That being said being a partner at this stage, as well as having production line, will still allow India to potentially play an important role in assiting other export customers in the South Asian region.
if that was the case, then the share of the funding should also reflect the future revenue streams that might be generated for each of the “partners”.
I don’t think anyone doubted that India cannot contribute too much on the engine side, but there are definite areas of competency and a general statement like the one you made is not at all fair. And if such a view is shared by others at Sukhoi and indeed reflects how the contracts will be signed, then I’m coming around to the view that India is being shafted in this deal. In that case, India should simply pay for licence production rather than putting money up for R&D which implies a share in export orders and revenues. They should instead put money and effort into the AMCA program.
BlackArcherR & D involvement? Nearly all the critical parts are already being developed by Russia and are likely to be what the IAF eventually goes for. Design, engines & propulsion, radars, IRST and EW suite, datalinks, all the weapons, even the construction materials originate in Russia! There isn’t much scope for HAL/DRDO here beyond maybe the cockpit and some Computer/navigation equipment (similar to the MKI). I suppose they can throw in the TOT and licenced production for HAL(But probably no re-export licences though; this ‘Indo-Russian’ fighter is a lot more Russian than Indian after all:rolleyes:) and call it indigenous development. I doubt it’d enhance their technological competence a lot more than the MKI deal did.:mad:
EW suite, datalinks and cockpit equipment as well as software will be likeliest areas where DRDO will be working. Why’re you including EW and datalink in the list of areas that Russia has already developed for the PAK-FA and how did you assume that the IAF will be happy to take what they’ve already developed for the RuAF, which isn’t customized for the IAF’s needs? there is an indigenous datalink, the ODL being developed for the IAF, so why’d they use anything else? as for EW suite, DRDO has good expertise in that area and its been demonstrated in multiple platforms, so that is one of the key areas where there will be definite Indian equipment on the FGFA.
As for weapons, how do you know that the Astra, Brahmos or Sudarshan will not be integrated on the PAK-FA? And what do you mean by construction materials? HAL chairman’s interview clearly stated that their expertise in composites will be one area in which they will be collaborating with Sukhoi.
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