BlackArcherI have read an equaly ‘interesting;)’ quote from a PAF Air Chief stating that the JF-17 is superior to the LCA (just don’t forget who brought up LCA in a PAF thread)– what does that prove?? Soon to be IAF Chief should know better than to think that China is going to hold back on source codes though – potential PAC workshare going possibly to 100% after PAF’s initail requirement of 150 units (on page 127 of the PAF book by Alan Warnes) and he thinks the type is inferior because PAF won’t have source codes??!!
he thinks that the JF-17 is inferior not because of source codes, but due to the difference in technology on board. Read the article again.
BlackArcherIndia has less problem with flankers but a hell lot of more with Mig. Buying a flanker is cheap, maintaining and keeping it battle ready is expensive.
I know this isn’t the thread for discussion, but the IAF’s problems with MiGs was resolved long back- the Fulcrum had a lot of serviceability issues back in the early 1990s.
BlackArcherif i were india, i wouldn’t want to operate the same aircraft on my carriers for the Navy as the Airforce would have for the MMRCA….
I personally think its an oversimplification to say that what is good for the airforce is good for the navy. Maybe in France, but not in the UK, and not in the US.
why not ? even when the aircraft in question is a superlative naval aircraft like the Rafale ? I can understand if the worry is over design compromises that may make a great AF fighter a poorer Naval fighter, but in the case of the Rafale it hardly seems so.
Besides, the IN and IAF are already operating MiG-29s in tandem and will be operating Tejas in tandem too. No reason why it cannot be the same with the Rafale.
BlackArcherNorman Brown who takes over the IAF command in a month or so has this to say –
“the asymmetry between the capabilities of both air forces was a certain amount in the past. That has somewhat [been] reduced now. The PAF is going in for a fast-track induction of beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and precision-guided munitions. These are things that actually tend to reduce the gap. But they won’t catch us up.”Interesting comments;)
oh and he said this too
The Indian Air Force’s Western Air Commander, Air Marshal NAK Browne, whose area of responsibility includes the northern sector with Pakistan, indicated today that the PAF JF-17 was inferior to the yet to be inducted Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas. “The LCA is ahead of the JF-17 in terms of contemporary technology. It will achieve final operational capability by the end of next year. The airplane is our design, uses our software, and is fully under our control. I’m not sure what in the JF-17 is under the PAF’s control. What do you do if you don’t have access to codes,” he said.
Truely very interesting. 😉
BlackArcherGetting back on track, two JF-17s and two F-16s reached Izmir yesterday for the TUAF’s centenary air show.
you were misled maybe or the person you spoke to didn’t know better. But the fact remains that the JF-17 was designed for max 8G loads. Which is fine, most fighters don’t need to go beyond that and even if they do, its for a few seconds at most..most pilots cannot take sustained 9Gs anyway.
Anyway, its boring to argue more on this topic, so lets not carry on any further. You can choose to believe its 9Gs and I’ll choose to believe what PAC Kamra published in brochures that were displayed at IDEAS. Hardly an event where they’d under-quote the max G load limit of their primary product.
BlackArcherHAL has a very positive outlook on the LCH, with the expected production run now estimated to go up to 250 units..that doesn’t include any export potential either.
BANGALORE: Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) expects the order book for its light combat helicopter (LCH) to swell to about 250, even as the country’s armed forces look to desperately add teeth to its largely-obsolete attack chopper fleet.
“We are looking at around at an order book of 200 to 250 helicopters overall for the LCH, including orders from the Army and the Air Force ,” said P Soundara Rajan, managing director of HAL’s Helicopter complex.
Already being compared to China’s under-wraps Z-10 gunship, the 5.5-tonne LCH will have the Shakti engine, co-developed with French engine-maker Turbomeca, and will be equipped with guns, rockets and missiles for anti-tank and counter-insurgency attacks. It is expected to enter service by 2015-16.
HAL already has a firm order for 180 of these helicopter gunships from both the Indian Army and the Air Force. Currently, the army does not operate any attack helicopters in its aviation wing and depend on the IAF for operational use. “We are in talks with the Army and expect some movement,” Soundara Rajan said.
….Soundara Rajan also confirmed that the Bangalore-based defence undertaking had already incorporated a number of design improvements on the two current LCH prototypes, including work on the breakaway fuselage, and expected to conduct the sea-level trials on the same by the end of the current year.
“Two prototypes are currently undergoing improvements and will fly shortly. We also have to do what we call the breakaway fuselage. The third prototype will be made after some more flying of the first two. We expect to hold the sea-level trials for the first two prototypes probably towards the end of this year,” Soundara Rajan said.
According to him, the entire load spectrum is simulated on the ground. The aircraft is then taken apart to see whether the intended design parameters are behaving exactly the way they should.
“The manufacturing of the breakaway fuselage is complete, and it is getting instrumented now. After that, it will go for its ground test.” The managing director expects the LCH programme, along with the Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter and the Light Utility Helicopter, to help the company turn a globally recognised defence player.
“I see LCH taking over for about two to three years. Afterwards, it will be LUH will dominate. There is a lot at stake, and these are programmes that will be crucial for the company over the next 30 to 35 years. HAL will also ramp up its Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter production capabilities as it gears up to meet the urgent needs of the military, which already has an outstanding order of 159 Dhruvs and 76 armed versions of the Dhruv – Dhruv Weapons Systems Integration .
BlackArcherI will take the words of the likes of Shahid Sikandar Khan and Ather Bukhari over your insinuations any day.
You are free to entertain whatever thoughts may roack your boat. I was told 9Gs by someone I trust. And frankly I don’t give a flying rat’s ass about what you guys think.
I can understand why you’re saying what you are- maybe that’s what I’d say if I was making up stuff that I couldn’t back up with any proof either..PAC Kamra incidentally doesn’t know that the JF-17 can fly 9Gs. Maybe they need to be told that its actually capable of 9Gs and not 8Gs. :rolleyes:
BlackArcher@ Black Archer, ”No”. Copyrights, you might have heard of them? Buy your own copy my friend. And the artist’s impression of the actual two seater design is way more graceful than what you’ve posted. Infact if (God willing) the 2 seater becomes a reality, it will be amongst the best looking dual seat fighter variants out there IMHO.
I’m amazed at how this aircraft has grown through it’s development. I remember meeting an airforce officer (a group captian, GDP) about 2 years back who told me that the F-16s would be our last US purchase. I asked him about the Thunder at that time and he said it was ok for our needs thats it.
I met him again at a wedding this March, and this time around he was gushing with pride and pleasure over the Thunder. ”It’s a wonderful aircraft. We’ve fully opened up the envelope, very highly agile, 9Gs etc etc”.
What struck me most at that last meeting was his assertion that the avionics are overall at par with the Block 52s. I was pretty dismissive of that till I read this article and all the gushing of praise for the Thunder’s avionics. Guess we have pulled one. 🙂
Sure I’ll buy my own copy, but the Borders nearby closed down recently, so I’ve got to find another store somewhere..BTW, rumours and hearsay aside, the JF-17 is 8Gs, not 9Gs capable.
And a AVM of the PAF is on record as having stated that the avionics are not even comparable to the F-16 Block 52s. I think most neutral folks too would prefer to believe that than what is basically hearsay.
BlackArcherJF-17 twin seater I had found earlier
BlackArcherany chance of showing a scan of the twin seat JF-17 ? Did it look anything like this ?
BlackArcherbtw how do armored vehicles feature in C-17 deal ?
Its an offset- and as long as its related to the defence industry, it is considered ok. What might not be ok is to try to get a civilian project to be a part of the defence offsets.
BlackArcherHAL to roll out the 3rd LCH prototype with improvements incorporated, including reduced weight, higher load capability and better camo..
BlackArcherGerman opposition at selling Typhoons to India :confused:
http://frontierindia.net/german-red-and-green-criticize-merkel-for-pushing-eurofighter-in-india
Merkel pushes for Typhoon
and what happens if the Opposition parties come to power? We’ve already seen Germany not approving some small gun sales to a couple of states in India claiming their human rights records were not good..This really raises questions about how secure supplies will be that originate in Germany throughout the history of the Typhoon in India..
As mentioned by the French, we know they’re reliable, unlikely to spout sanctimonious nonsense and we won’t have issues with 1 country willing to supply parts and the other partner nation raising objections to it.
BlackArcherNow this is something that will make the offsets part of the C-17 deal worth it !
New Delhi:
After considerable diligence and mathematics, India is all set to purchase 10 C-17 Globemaster strategic lift aircraft from US for $4.1 billion, with upfront offsets of $1.12 billion.The Cabinet Committee on Security on Wednesday will consider a revised proposal for purchase of C-17s which, for the first time, outlines the offsets including a High Altitude Engine Test Facility and Trisonic Wind Tunnel Facility valued at $510 million, for the Defence Research & Development Organisation.
India’s access to advanced technology air tunnel would be important as it has depended on Russian test facilities to evaluate the indigenous Kaveri jet engine, which was to be used in the LCA project.
The other half of the offsets, according to the proposal, would be shared between Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd for training and maintenance for the aircraft, Tata Consultancy Services for defence strategic communication systems and Defence Land Systems — a joint venture between Mahindra Group and BAE Systems — for armoured vehicles.
BlackArcherWill Dassault offer this Samtel Displays Indian made Thales Top-Sight HMD renamed Divya Dhristi for the Rafale, since the Mirage-2000-5 upgrade will almost surely get this HMD ?
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