BlackArcherMay be because it is a prototype?
The LCH front profile and its paint scheme will make it quite effective platform in counter insurgency operations.
that didn’t stop HAL/ADA from painting the IAF fin flash on the Tejas prototypes..and the LCH TD-1 had an IAF fin flash, not the Indian flag painted on the tail.
BlackArcherLooks very neat in that digital camo scheme. 🙂
Why do they have the Indian flag on the tail instead of the IAF fin flash ?
BlackArcherInterview of Air Chief Marshal PV Naik. cross posting from BRF
PV Naik: The process of change started seven or eight years back but it is materialising now, which is a very very exciting thing. Over the next 3-4 years, I expect the IAF to become one of the most modern air forces in the world. There are lots of things in the offing – we have aircrafts, equipment, missiles, radars actually we have a very long list.
If you permit me I will just read out from this just to tell you what all inductions we have planned.
First list is of acquisitions: 126 MMRCA’s is well-known. 214 fifth generation fighter aircrafts that will be coming around 2017; 42 SU 30’s additionally, we require the RFP has been issued to HAL; 75 trainers – that process is well on its way, two more AWACS of IL-76 base which we are waiting for; 10 C-17s – another famous deal cleared by CCS; 80 + 59 medium-lift helicopters; 22 attack helicopters; 12 VVIP helicopters. There are upgrades also going on for weapon systems: 63 MiG-29’s, that upgrade is well on its way in Russia. Mirage 2000 upgrade will be going to the CCS next week and Jaguar re-engineering, that is another major project for which a new RFP has been issued now. Missiles, 18 firing units of MRSAM (Medium Range Surface to Air Missiles), 4 Spyders, 49 SR-SAM that is short range, 8 Aakash missile batteries.As far as radars are concerned, Rohinis, aerostats, medium-power radars, low-level tactical radars, low-level light weight radars, we have the AFNET which is already active, we have the MAFI (Modernisation of Airport Infrastructure) which is going on. The first airfield to convert on to MAFI would be Bhatinda. And we have the IACCS which is active, so if you see all-round development of the Air Force is in the offing.
updates on MRCA status
NDTV: Coming back to the final selection what do you think is the time frame? You had said before that it should be done very quickly and you are hopeful… do you think there is a time frame you could think of?
PV Naik: At present, the Technical Oversight Committee has finished their report. The report will be submitted to the Rakhsha Mantri. Thereafter, they will open the commercial bids and decide who is the L-1 (lowest bidder) vendor. After that the CNC will start negotiations, thereafter it will go to the Finance Ministry. From Finance, it will go to CCS and after their approval, the final contract will be signed. So I think another two months is a very optimistic assessment. That is by September, I expect this deal to be signed.
NDTV: And once the deal is signed, what is the time frame for the induction for the first aircraft that will come down?
PV Naik: That will be about three years.
and regarding the Tejas
NDTV: One way of overcoming over-dependence on foreign vendors or foreign manufactures is to indigenise…we have had this experience of the LCA Tejas. You have inducted the prototype, given operational clearance for the first prototype. How hopeful are you about the LCS Tejas finally getting inducted and coming into the IAF ?
PV Naik: See Nitin, Tejas took us 20-21 years to reach this stage but over the last two years I have seen that we have reached a very good stage and there is light at the end of the tunnel.
And I’m very very positive Tejas will be inducted into the Air Force. We have already given the initial operational clearance, now the squadrons will slowly come and start operating these aircrafts.
It will take a couple of years for these aircraft to get full operational clearance. During this time, the phase two build-up is also going on with the actual engine which is a GE-414 engine which has been decided.Thereafter, the Tejas will have the engine and we will have 6-7, if not more, squadrons of the Tejas class of aircraft.
Now all the people who have flown this aircraft swear by it, it’s a wonderful aircraft. Of course, it is not in the fifth-generation class but I would call it a MiG-21++, with some latest technologies, with the latest collaborations an excellent aircraft to fill in the gap in our numbers which is there.
This will completely silence those who were trying to put a spin on ACM PV Naik’s statement on the Tejas being a MiG-21++ and what he meant by that.
There it is from the horse’s mouth – “Now all the people who have flown this aircraft swear by it, it’s a wonderful aircraft.” and an “excellent aircraft to fill in the gap in our numbers which is there” and that the Tejas Mk2 numbers may not be capped at 6-7 squadrons.
BlackArcherInteresting, when is the Indian Hawk line closing down? They ordered 123 if I remember correctly. Also, since it seems the Indian Hawk line would deal with any future sales, how much of it is still UK-built?
The Hawk line at HAL won’t close down anytime soon. They haven’t yet delivered all of the initially ordered 42 Hawk-132s they were to build, to the IAF. These 42 Hawks were supposed to have been delivered beginning in 2007 till 2011.
There were some delays- as of Sep 2009, HAL had delivered 5 Hawk-132s to the IAF instead of the 15 that were supposed to have been delivered and as of April 2010, HAL had delivered 12 only, due to issues with BAe supplied jigs and tools.
These issues were reportedly resolved and only then was the follow-on order for 57 Hawks placed.
India actually holds the licence rights to manufacture Hawks as needed- and we’ve seen that in the case of the Jaguar, the assembly line was re-started and 37 new-build Jaguars rolled out of those lines. We may well see the same in the case of the Hawk- if the IAF wants to place further orders later on for attrition replacements or for increased training needs.
BENGALURU, India — India’s largest defense manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), is in talks with the U.K.’s BAE Systems on various projects related to Hawk Advanced Jet Trainers.
HAL is currently licensed by BAE to produce the Hawk in India for the Indian military.
Possible future projects include establishing a maintenance, repair and overhaul base for Hawks worldwide, building a worldwide supply chain and making India the center for exporting the Hawk in the long term, Aviation Week has learned.The final decision on what direction the partnership will take will depend on cost and both companies’ desire to kick-start the project.
Opportunities are opening up for BAE as it expands its installed base for Hawks in India. In February 2003, India signed a $1.7-billion contract with BAE to supply 66 Hawk trainer jets. In July, the company was awarded a $780-million contract for 57 Hawks, 17 of which are for the Indian navy and the rest for the Indian air force. A contract clause is related to “the future of Hawks” in India, Aviation Week has learned.
Under the deal with BAE Systems, the Advanced Jet Trainers are manufactured under license by HAL at its Bengaluru facility, with BAE providing the necessary specialist engineering services, raw materials, airframe production equipment and support package.
“We have given a permanent license to HAL to build the Hawk,” says Andrew Gallagher, managing director and CEO of BAE Systems India.“This statement makes it clear that India has access to the technology. It’s now a question of how they want to move forward,” an Indian defense official says.
BlackArcherFinally. 🙂 I hope a long-standing debate would soon be put to rest. 🙂
What long standing debate? Does this prove that the JF-17 is already BVR capable ? IMO, no- it only proves that SD-10 integration activities are going on, which wasn’t in doubt, since its been discussed for many many months now.
It still doesn’t prove that its in operational PAF service, although it will be eventually.
BlackArchersomeone just can’t get over the fact that their favourite fighter has been eliminated. 😀
just continue using the mirage till the MRCA starts entering service. MRCA numbers will match current m2k numbers by 2018 latest.
it might well be time to look long and hard at the Israeli offer- get an Israeli MC, an Elta 2032 with Elbit DASH/Python V and Derby and instead of getting it all done at HAL’s facilities, get it done in Israel itself so that the timelines are met. This would be along the lines of the LUSH Sea Harrier upgrade, which gave them interim capabilities but not uber capabilities like the 2000-5 upgrade would’ve brought.
BlackArcherRevised offset bids submitted by EADS and Dassault..
New Delhi: Couple of months after being shortlisted, French firm Dassault and consortium of European companies Eurofighter have submitted their revised offset bids for the multi-billion dollar 126 combat aircraft deal, the process for which is expected to be completed by the year end.
On 27 April, India has shortlisted the two European companies for procuring 126 Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA) deal for the Indian Air Force (IAF) in which six companies were participating.
“The offsets offer, which were completed until April 14 this year, have been asked to be revised until June 17 that is today,” German Ambassador Thomas Mattusek told reporters here.
Officials in Dassault also said they have already submitted the revised bids with the ministry.
Under the offsets clause in the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP), foreign vendors bagging deals worth over Rs 300 crore have to reinvest at least 30 percent of the contract amount into Indian defence, civilian aerospace or the homeland security sectors.
In the M-MRCA competition, companies have to invest 50 percent of the worth of the deal into the Indian defence sector only.
“The shortlist and commercial biddings are expected to be opened in the next few weeks so that the whole project is expected to be finalised by the end of this year,” the German Ambassador said.
BlackArcherThat was the plan as isssued by ADA and posted on livefist. It was for 83 Tejas MK2s. He did say its mig 21++ and then backtracked possibly under pressure. May be his personal opinion remains the same but the position he sits in demands him to be more sensitive towards the indigenous Tejas.
Wait till he retires and starts writing on Force or India Strategic then what he thinks of it may be more clear cut.
he is now on record as having stated that there will be 6-7 squadrons of Tejas Mk2. Taking the regular nos. of 18 fighters per squadron plus 2 reserves, that gives a figure of anywhere between 120 to 140 Tejas Mk2 plus 40 Tejas Mk1s. Not to mention the 40+ N-LCA’s with F-414INS6 engines that will be sharing airframe changes commonality with the Tejas Mk2
BlackArcherIndia issues RFI for Naval Multi-role helicopters
DATE:17/06/11
SOURCE:Flight International
India issues RFI for multi-role naval helicopters
By Greg WaldronIndia has issued a request for information for a naval multi-role helicopter (NMRH) to complement its existing fleet of Westland Sea King 42 anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopters.
The RFI calls for helicopters with a maximum all-up weight of between 9t and 12.5t. The NMRH, which will be expected to serve for 30 years, should have the capacity for 10% weight growth throughout its service life without hurting performance.
The navy foresees three primary roles: ASW, anti-surface warfare (ASuW), and special operations. Secondary roles include electronic intelligence, search and rescue (SAR), external cargo carrying, casualty evacuation and combat SAR.
….
Possible candidates for the requirement could include the Lockheed Martin/Sikorsky MH-60R and NH Industries’ NH90. The deal will require a minimum 30% offset obligation under Indian laws.
BlackArcherThis news was mentioned earlier, but now confirmed- Pilatus have won the basic trainer contest, being declared the lowest bidder (L1) after the commercial proposals of the 3 short-listed candidates (T-6C Texan II, KAI KT-1 Woong Bee and Pilatus PC-7 Mk2) were opened.
“Of the three short-listed firms from the U.S., Korea and Switzerland, the bid made by Pilatus has emerged the lowest,” says India’s chief of air staff, Air Marshal P.V. Naik.
The total cost for the basic trainer is likely to be around $1 billion. The aircraft are expected to be delivered over the next two years.
“We have started price negotiations with the Swiss vendor for supplying 75 aircraft to train new pilots,” Naik says.
After the Pilatus deal is signed, the IAF is likely to send some of its young pilots to Switzerland for training. “As we need a better trainer aircraft, we hope to induct the PC-7 into our fleet in the next two years for training the new pilots,” Naik says.
So now newbies will to go Switzerland for training..:D Earlier, some 75 odd pilots were trained in the UK by the RAF before the IAF received its Hawk AJTs.
BlackArcher2 more C-130J’s depart for Hindon, Delhi from Lockheed Martin’s facility in Marietta, Georgia, to join No.77 Veiled Viper’s squadron.
Last 2 of the 6 C-130J order are to be delivered by end of summer. I would anticipate a follow-on contract for at least 6 more C-130J’s, soon after.
BlackArcherWill be good to see what the performance envelope of the NLCA will be… Have been dreading that it would be a lot worse due to extra weight issues on the NLCA.
Good think the IN has the Mig 29K as the main stay for now.
the NP1 and NP2 prototypes will fly with the F-404IN20 engine- but the production N-LCA’s will fly with the 100+ kN thrust F-414INS6 engine..more than adequate thrust to overcome any weight issues which anyway would be looked to be addressed on the NP1 and NP2..so relax and have some dhoklas. 😉
BlackArcherAccording to this article:
http://www.defence-point.gr/news/?p=12362
The “mobile team for maintenance of underwater and sea structures” which belongs to the 206th Wing of Airforce Infrastructure, has located the crashed Mirage2000, at 1,5 nm SW of Samos, at depth of 50m. First indications show that the aircraft is in relatively good conditions (it didn’t fall apart on impact). There will be evaluation about whether it’s worth the effort to bring it on surface and attempt to bring it back to flying conditions like the other Mirage.
It would be interesting to see if they can salvage the fighter..a Mirage is after all a costly asset..I remember seeing an Indian Navy Sea Harrier being salvaged in rather good condition from the sea since it had lost power while in the hover. But I don’t recall reading that it was ever put back into service.
HAF’s Air Command also gave a “non paper” about the accidents and the accusations from websites:
“The accident rate of HAF in the past decade is steadily declining and the average of the last 3 years (1.36) is the best of the period 1991-2011. The accident rate is one of the lowest amongst the most advanced airforces of the world. Specifically, amongst 14 airforces, HAF, while having high density of activities, is at 8th place with index 2.9, with the first ranking airforce having 1.0 and the last 5.8.
Comparing to 2010, in the totality of air accidents of all kinds, this years presents accident reduction by 30%. There is full coverage from spare parts and maintenance”.
http://www.defence-point.gr/news/?p=12419
Yes, well, let us hope so, because if they continue like in this month, their statistics will soon take a very bad turn…
So is that an attrition rate of 1.36 accidents per 10,000 hours of flying? That is interesting, because its higher than that of the Indian Air Force and on par with that of the PAF..see this link that mentions the attrition rates of these 2 air forces
BlackArcherRafale even lost to Harrier, so, everybody has special rules to take into account.:D
Are you referring to the Indian Navy’s Sea Harriers who beat Rafales in WVR combat but were outgunned completely in BVR ?
BlackArcherDoes he give access to codes as a reason for LCA’s superiority or not? Perhaps you should read the article again — I quote from your post–‘ The airplane is our design, uses our software, and is fully under our control. I’m not sure what in the JF-17 is under the PAF’s control. What do you do if you don’t have access to codes,’
— hence my comment on the issue.With regard to the other ‘reasons’ he gives – I repeat – a PAF cheif has made comments in reverse – claiming the JF-17 to be superior – it proves nothing. Unless of course someone can post truely independant sources giving views one way or the other.
what I find interesting is that you found it very interesting (and thereby brought his reference into this thread for the first time) when the same Air Marshal NAK Browne stated that PAF was achieving parity in some areas but would not catch up, as if that statement proved anything..
but when he stated that the LCA was superior because of the technology it uses, it suddenly seems like his opinion doesn’t really matter and it proves nothing..
😀 strange.
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