pluto77189Originally posted by skythe
Do you define their areas of interest? What happens when their areas of interest overlap yours, in Turkey for instance? What happens if they decide Europe is in their sphere of interest? Heck, why go that far, my car runs on fuel, what do your car run on?
I was planning to stay out of this–you know, an American talking about OIL, man do we just LOVE oil!
Protecting Saudi Arabia frm Saddam was an important enough issue to justify the first gulf war. If Saddam took over the oilfields of SA, the American economy would crash. It would not destroy us, but it would hurt us REALLY bad. So much, that it was financially sound to remove the threat by means of force.
Hopefully, our dependance on oil will lower. Hybrid vehicles are a great first step, getting 50% better mileage. If, hypothetically, 50% of the new vehicles purchased over the next decade are hybrid vehicles, we could get by with NOT importng oil from the MidEast AT ALL.
the problem with fuel cells is cost, as they’re too young a concept. they might be the future, though.
Electric cars are a waste, since quite a bit of elcetrisity comes from burining oil and coal…
If we went more nuclear, electric cars would be a great way to go.
although performance is an issue–most americans commute, and traveling anywhere in this place requires lots of distance.
When I see my in-laws, it’s 250 miles away, up in the mountiains. A pure electric car won’t cut it.
Hybrid cars actually work BETTER than pure gas powered cars, not only more range, and mileage, but more power, and much longer life, since systems wear less, they should last nearly TWICE as long as conventional vehicles…
Hybrid cars for everyone! Free us from the financial hold of our enemies!
pluto77189Originally posted by plawolf
“
lol, get out in the streets and ask americans if they send stationary to iraq and i’ll bet most of them will either laugh at u or give u ‘the look’.:rolleyes:rebuilding iraq is big business where lots of money is to be made. america doesnt want to share the pie (not even with the british it seems), and now it has appeared it has bitten off more then it can chew.
:
I was not talking about buisness, just donations.
And most americans are NOT donating. IF they did, Iraq qould be able to triple it’s GDP by sellingoff surplus donations.
All it takes is a few people to donate a few boxes of pencils and paper to supply an entire school for a year.
I wouldn’t say it’s bitten off too much. Everyone fully expected the recent events, the sunnis are afraid they’ll be punished for being saddam’s pets, and the Radical Shiites, having been oppressed for decades, think that an islamic state is best. Both groups are willing to do crazy things–to the point of damaging their cause–to get their point across.
With support of most of Iraqis, the Us will see things through.
In Vietnam, the people were ok with whatever they had–they didn’t care about being free, only alive. The Iraqis want freedom, and most know how to get it(NOT shiite theocracy, or imperial dictatorship).
Time wil tell.
pluto77189Originally posted by plawolf
“
lol, get out in the streets and ask americans if they send stationary to iraq and i’ll bet most of them will either laugh at u or give u ‘the look’.:rolleyes:rebuilding iraq is big business where lots of money is to be made. america doesnt want to share the pie (not even with the british it seems), and now it has appeared it has bitten off more then it can chew.
:
I was not talking about buisness, just donations.
And most americans are NOT donating. IF they did, Iraq qould be able to triple it’s GDP by sellingoff surplus donations.
All it takes is a few people to donate a few boxes of pencils and paper to supply an entire school for a year.
I wouldn’t say it’s bitten off too much. Everyone fully expected the recent events, the sunnis are afraid they’ll be punished for being saddam’s pets, and the Radical Shiites, having been oppressed for decades, think that an islamic state is best. Both groups are willing to do crazy things–to the point of damaging their cause–to get their point across.
With support of most of Iraqis, the Us will see things through.
In Vietnam, the people were ok with whatever they had–they didn’t care about being free, only alive. The Iraqis want freedom, and most know how to get it(NOT shiite theocracy, or imperial dictatorship).
Time wil tell.
pluto77189Originally posted by seahawk
Well I have some further ideas, that would surely get europe out of the targeting sights of islamic terrorists.The simple solution is to stay out of their areas of interest.
I do not care what is happening in Afghanistan nor did I care about Iraq. We should also get out of the whole middle east trouble spot. Just end support to all sides and let them fight it out. The fortress idea will work better, then playing world police men. There are too many people out there that hate the west at the moment. No chnace in hell we will ever get them all, so the best thing is to keep them out of europe.
Attacks on tourists in arabic nations don´t bother me. There is a simple solution, don´t go there. If we europeans are not welcome, then we can spent our money inside the european community. Let those countries see how they will do without the money.
I’d love to see this tried. Unfourtunatly, it won’t work.
These are people that can praise God’s greatness while mutilating a body.
They cried tears of JOY when thousands of innocent people died on 9-11.
They kill themselves, with the thought that God is HAPY when innocent people die.
They kill themselves for the promise of paradise.
Their idea of paradise is 70 virgins–how material, and pathetic, that the ability to deflower 70 women is the BEST they can come up with!
They are willing to go through great lengths, and suffer horrible deaths, just on the possibility that they’ll kill someone.
People warped to such a degree that such evil is justifiable have no hope. It is absolutly CERTAIN that they will not stop if left alone. IF a nation WAS to leave the region, and ignore it, they’d still be a target.
Over the years their goals have shifted. IT used to be the palestinians, then,after the gulf war, it was US forces in Saudi Arabia. Now, it’s our culture in general, evil in that it influences their children. Western culture is a threat to religious fanatics, and its existence threatens their leaders.
when we pull our military out of SA, and the palestinians have a state, will the terrorists then stop?
Anyone thinking that they’ll stop is a fool.
Isreal is a PRIME example. The palestinians were given a generous offer recently, and rejected it. the leaders(arafat) would have been without purpose if such a “goal” was accomplished. They are terrorists, and their true goal is the elimination of Isreal, made clear by the rejection of the offer(during the clinton years).
Anyone that thinks the terrorists will stop when a palestinian state is established is also a fool. the vat Majority of palestinians may be happy, and content, when a state is formed. The few hard-core terrorists will not, Hamas will not, Al-oksa mb will not. When this happens, the palestinians had better take care fo the problem themselves, or Isreal will.
I think this is the biggest problem for peace there. Isreal UNDERSTANDS that terrorisim will not end until either Isreal is destroyed, or the terrorists are. If the plo won’t take care of the problem, the isrealis will have to. Isreal wants peace, Palestine wants peace, but the terrorists want the destruction of Isreal. One of these groups has to go. Any guess as to which it is?
We can’t keep fooling ourselves into thinking the terrorists will listen. They just won’t. Period.
pluto77189Originally posted by seahawk
Well I have some further ideas, that would surely get europe out of the targeting sights of islamic terrorists.The simple solution is to stay out of their areas of interest.
I do not care what is happening in Afghanistan nor did I care about Iraq. We should also get out of the whole middle east trouble spot. Just end support to all sides and let them fight it out. The fortress idea will work better, then playing world police men. There are too many people out there that hate the west at the moment. No chnace in hell we will ever get them all, so the best thing is to keep them out of europe.
Attacks on tourists in arabic nations don´t bother me. There is a simple solution, don´t go there. If we europeans are not welcome, then we can spent our money inside the european community. Let those countries see how they will do without the money.
I’d love to see this tried. Unfourtunatly, it won’t work.
These are people that can praise God’s greatness while mutilating a body.
They cried tears of JOY when thousands of innocent people died on 9-11.
They kill themselves, with the thought that God is HAPY when innocent people die.
They kill themselves for the promise of paradise.
Their idea of paradise is 70 virgins–how material, and pathetic, that the ability to deflower 70 women is the BEST they can come up with!
They are willing to go through great lengths, and suffer horrible deaths, just on the possibility that they’ll kill someone.
People warped to such a degree that such evil is justifiable have no hope. It is absolutly CERTAIN that they will not stop if left alone. IF a nation WAS to leave the region, and ignore it, they’d still be a target.
Over the years their goals have shifted. IT used to be the palestinians, then,after the gulf war, it was US forces in Saudi Arabia. Now, it’s our culture in general, evil in that it influences their children. Western culture is a threat to religious fanatics, and its existence threatens their leaders.
when we pull our military out of SA, and the palestinians have a state, will the terrorists then stop?
Anyone thinking that they’ll stop is a fool.
Isreal is a PRIME example. The palestinians were given a generous offer recently, and rejected it. the leaders(arafat) would have been without purpose if such a “goal” was accomplished. They are terrorists, and their true goal is the elimination of Isreal, made clear by the rejection of the offer(during the clinton years).
Anyone that thinks the terrorists will stop when a palestinian state is established is also a fool. the vat Majority of palestinians may be happy, and content, when a state is formed. The few hard-core terrorists will not, Hamas will not, Al-oksa mb will not. When this happens, the palestinians had better take care fo the problem themselves, or Isreal will.
I think this is the biggest problem for peace there. Isreal UNDERSTANDS that terrorisim will not end until either Isreal is destroyed, or the terrorists are. If the plo won’t take care of the problem, the isrealis will have to. Isreal wants peace, Palestine wants peace, but the terrorists want the destruction of Isreal. One of these groups has to go. Any guess as to which it is?
We can’t keep fooling ourselves into thinking the terrorists will listen. They just won’t. Period.
pluto77189Originally posted by plawolf
[B
i think there’s also the little fact that many of those schools were damaged or destroyed in the fight for iraq. or the lawlessness that followed saddam’s fall from power.:rolleyes:Well, the VAST majority of the schools being rebuilt weren’t “damaged” by military/looting, they were simply poorly maintained, in terrible condition or lacking in funds.
would be alot cheaper if alot of those things came from china or india or europe. and its not like they are fighting to embargo stationary for iraqi schoolkids, wonder why everything’s got to come from america.:rolleyes: [/B]
Why everything’s got to come from America? Maybe Americans SHOULDN’T be the only ones sending stuff. Maybe if you Europeans decided to send some school supplies, then it wouldn’t ALL come from America. People are donating this stuff THEMSELVES, individuals, out of their own pocket, shipping it with their OWN money. Get off your high horse, buy some pencils and paper, and ship it over there yourself if you want to.
Why DOES it all have to come from America?
pluto77189Originally posted by plawolf
[B
i think there’s also the little fact that many of those schools were damaged or destroyed in the fight for iraq. or the lawlessness that followed saddam’s fall from power.:rolleyes:Well, the VAST majority of the schools being rebuilt weren’t “damaged” by military/looting, they were simply poorly maintained, in terrible condition or lacking in funds.
would be alot cheaper if alot of those things came from china or india or europe. and its not like they are fighting to embargo stationary for iraqi schoolkids, wonder why everything’s got to come from america.:rolleyes: [/B]
Why everything’s got to come from America? Maybe Americans SHOULDN’T be the only ones sending stuff. Maybe if you Europeans decided to send some school supplies, then it wouldn’t ALL come from America. People are donating this stuff THEMSELVES, individuals, out of their own pocket, shipping it with their OWN money. Get off your high horse, buy some pencils and paper, and ship it over there yourself if you want to.
Why DOES it all have to come from America?
pluto77189Originally posted by seahawk
Perhaps the people don´t want schools, they want freedom from forgein occupation.
You americans never do understand that people are devoted to other things then money, status and wealth. You duid never understand the motivation of the vietnamese and you do not understan the motivation of the Iraqi population.
“You Americans don’t Understand________________”
Typical elitist crap. Of course, “us Americans” don’t have much of a view of the rest of the world. Europeans, however, are more cultured, and have a better understanding of the world’s issues. Being sheltered between the Atlantic and pacific Oceans, we just simply don’t understand the problems of the rest of the world, and as a result, are self-serving, aspiring only wealth and status, and A B O V E A L L…………… P O W E R !
We are so greedy and narrow minded, we ignore the rest of the world. All we care about is the accumilation of our own fortunes.
You know, saying stuff like that is the reason some Americans think Europeans are a bunch of elitists Anti-americans, envious of the fact that America offers such oppurtunity not FATHOMABLE in their country. Just keep posting that stuff, and other Americans will KEEP thinking you guys are having “country envy”.
Last I checked, lack of schools leads to masses of STUPID PEOPLE. Masses of STUPID PEOPLE are very succeptible to religious fanaticisim, and scapegoating. They blame all their problems(stupid people have lots) on people that DON’T have such problems. Compared to the rest of the world, Americans seem worry free, heck, we’re the richest, most visual nation, so why not BLAME us? Educating people leads to sucessful people. Successful, intelligent people create successful countries.
pluto77189Originally posted by seahawk
Perhaps the people don´t want schools, they want freedom from forgein occupation.
You americans never do understand that people are devoted to other things then money, status and wealth. You duid never understand the motivation of the vietnamese and you do not understan the motivation of the Iraqi population.
“You Americans don’t Understand________________”
Typical elitist crap. Of course, “us Americans” don’t have much of a view of the rest of the world. Europeans, however, are more cultured, and have a better understanding of the world’s issues. Being sheltered between the Atlantic and pacific Oceans, we just simply don’t understand the problems of the rest of the world, and as a result, are self-serving, aspiring only wealth and status, and A B O V E A L L…………… P O W E R !
We are so greedy and narrow minded, we ignore the rest of the world. All we care about is the accumilation of our own fortunes.
You know, saying stuff like that is the reason some Americans think Europeans are a bunch of elitists Anti-americans, envious of the fact that America offers such oppurtunity not FATHOMABLE in their country. Just keep posting that stuff, and other Americans will KEEP thinking you guys are having “country envy”.
Last I checked, lack of schools leads to masses of STUPID PEOPLE. Masses of STUPID PEOPLE are very succeptible to religious fanaticisim, and scapegoating. They blame all their problems(stupid people have lots) on people that DON’T have such problems. Compared to the rest of the world, Americans seem worry free, heck, we’re the richest, most visual nation, so why not BLAME us? Educating people leads to sucessful people. Successful, intelligent people create successful countries.
pluto77189Originally posted by google
First of all, how do you know whether they will certainly attack Spain?Secondly, how do you know who ‘them’ is? Or does one just make up a country, attempt to associate it with Al-Qaeda, and attack them a la Iraq? Perhaps Spain should attack Morocco.
Thirdly, one or two spelling/typing mistakes don’t bother me, but when your post is fraught with them, it detracts from your credibility (and is just plain annoying to read)- so please correct them! 🙂
How do I know whether they will attack Spain? They did, on 3/11, then last week they found another bomb, on a high speed rail. So, they DID attack spain again, unless you want to give them the benifit of the doubt that they put that bomb there for safe keeping?
who are “they”?
Well, that’s the big question. If we knew who they were, we’d simply kill them all. What we do know about them, is that they’re NOT a “nation” , but reside in many nations.
If we do nothing, “they” will attack us. The fluid nature of terrorists(no real base, move around), coupled with their fanatical beliefs, makes them impossible to reason with or contain.
As far as spelling–my typing errors are the biggest annoyance, my work keyboard is messed up, and my spacebar/shift keys are defective, and lots of my words ge tsplit–like that.
OFten, the shift key sticks like this.
Upon re-reading my posts, yeah, it is kind of annoying. I’ll try to watch out for that, but I tend to type a lot…
pluto77189Originally posted by google
First of all, how do you know whether they will certainly attack Spain?Secondly, how do you know who ‘them’ is? Or does one just make up a country, attempt to associate it with Al-Qaeda, and attack them a la Iraq? Perhaps Spain should attack Morocco.
Thirdly, one or two spelling/typing mistakes don’t bother me, but when your post is fraught with them, it detracts from your credibility (and is just plain annoying to read)- so please correct them! 🙂
How do I know whether they will attack Spain? They did, on 3/11, then last week they found another bomb, on a high speed rail. So, they DID attack spain again, unless you want to give them the benifit of the doubt that they put that bomb there for safe keeping?
who are “they”?
Well, that’s the big question. If we knew who they were, we’d simply kill them all. What we do know about them, is that they’re NOT a “nation” , but reside in many nations.
If we do nothing, “they” will attack us. The fluid nature of terrorists(no real base, move around), coupled with their fanatical beliefs, makes them impossible to reason with or contain.
As far as spelling–my typing errors are the biggest annoyance, my work keyboard is messed up, and my spacebar/shift keys are defective, and lots of my words ge tsplit–like that.
OFten, the shift key sticks like this.
Upon re-reading my posts, yeah, it is kind of annoying. I’ll try to watch out for that, but I tend to type a lot…
pluto77189Originally posted by google
That sounds like the logic Bush used to go to war. bleah. And it’s not ‘weather’, it’s ‘whether’; please do and try to use the correct words.
Well, it is the same logic Bush used. I think it’s correct, in fact. Seems to be th emain point of disagreement between the people who support the war, and those who don’t.
Ahhh… making fun of my spelling damage my credibility–one of the oldest tricks in the internet(hehe). Proofreading internet posts is not something I do regularly.
pluto77189Originally posted by google
That sounds like the logic Bush used to go to war. bleah. And it’s not ‘weather’, it’s ‘whether’; please do and try to use the correct words.
Well, it is the same logic Bush used. I think it’s correct, in fact. Seems to be th emain point of disagreement between the people who support the war, and those who don’t.
Ahhh… making fun of my spelling damage my credibility–one of the oldest tricks in the internet(hehe). Proofreading internet posts is not something I do regularly.
pluto77189Originally posted by Flood
But thats ok, coz ‘god’ only cares about how many unbelievers you send to their own god in ‘his’ name…:rolleyes:
Care to bless thy holy atom bomb, padre?:eek:Flood.
One George Carlin joke that has a lot of people ****ed off, yet is totally true. “god is the #1 cause of death”. Not saying God is bad, not at all(Although George Carlin might disagree…)just that God’s “will” has been used to justify things that go against human nature itself. You just DON’t go around killing innocent people, anyone knows that. However, if God tells you too…..what are you going to do, deny GOD???
As far as I’m concerned, the ways of God are so unfathomable by humans, we cannot hope to know his will. Our only hope is to do our best, and hope it’s alright with him.
That’s part of the thing that disturbs me about our terrorist friends. They really, honestly, believe that causing suffering, terror, death and pain, makes God HAPPY. That mentality is SO opposed to the way I understand God.
The way I see it, any death, intentional, military, civilian, is BAD in the eyes of God. Now, the reasons behind the deaths, those differ(self defense, aving the lives of others, murder) but the loss of a life is always a “bad” thing in the ultimate, omnicient eyes of God.
We (humans)are responsible to keep the numbers of deaths down as low as possible, while limiting suffering, slavery, oppression,etc. This does NOT give all humans the JUSTIFICATION to police the rest of the world, but I think that’s the individual’s duty–try to do the best for mankind that you yurself can do.
Seriously, I would risk my own life to save the live of a terrorist’s child. It sickens me that they would give up their lives to kill mine.
The mullah’s and ayatollahs and clerics responsible for corrupting the people, and contorting their minds so as to even CONSIDER acts of evil as the will of God, are the scourgue of humanity. They are no better than the Nazis, the imperial Japanese, and other empires, who justified acts of evil as the will of God.
I see it over here, al the time. Many people simply think that you have to be a Christian to ge to heaven. fine with that, their beliefs. Unfortunatly, they use this belief to degrade the status of non-christians in the eyes of God–“if they’re not good enough for heaven, they’re not good enough for here.” Justification of evil through God’s will. IF it weren’t for Jesus actually, and CLEARLY saying “love your enemies”, Christians would have probably wiped out all other religions a few centuries ago.
I remember reading of some europeans giving bibles to native americans, and were “not allowed” to kill them(by the church) until they rejected the word of god(they couldn’t read). By not “accepting” the bible, they were thought to have “rejected” it, giving the Europeans the go-ahead from the almighty to wipe out the tribe.
kinda like the holy hand grenade.
…I love the holy hand grenade from monty python. Oh, that was one of the best moments in film…orang-GU-tans, and sloaths…
pluto77189Originally posted by Flood
But thats ok, coz ‘god’ only cares about how many unbelievers you send to their own god in ‘his’ name…:rolleyes:
Care to bless thy holy atom bomb, padre?:eek:Flood.
One George Carlin joke that has a lot of people ****ed off, yet is totally true. “god is the #1 cause of death”. Not saying God is bad, not at all(Although George Carlin might disagree…)just that God’s “will” has been used to justify things that go against human nature itself. You just DON’t go around killing innocent people, anyone knows that. However, if God tells you too…..what are you going to do, deny GOD???
As far as I’m concerned, the ways of God are so unfathomable by humans, we cannot hope to know his will. Our only hope is to do our best, and hope it’s alright with him.
That’s part of the thing that disturbs me about our terrorist friends. They really, honestly, believe that causing suffering, terror, death and pain, makes God HAPPY. That mentality is SO opposed to the way I understand God.
The way I see it, any death, intentional, military, civilian, is BAD in the eyes of God. Now, the reasons behind the deaths, those differ(self defense, aving the lives of others, murder) but the loss of a life is always a “bad” thing in the ultimate, omnicient eyes of God.
We (humans)are responsible to keep the numbers of deaths down as low as possible, while limiting suffering, slavery, oppression,etc. This does NOT give all humans the JUSTIFICATION to police the rest of the world, but I think that’s the individual’s duty–try to do the best for mankind that you yurself can do.
Seriously, I would risk my own life to save the live of a terrorist’s child. It sickens me that they would give up their lives to kill mine.
The mullah’s and ayatollahs and clerics responsible for corrupting the people, and contorting their minds so as to even CONSIDER acts of evil as the will of God, are the scourgue of humanity. They are no better than the Nazis, the imperial Japanese, and other empires, who justified acts of evil as the will of God.
I see it over here, al the time. Many people simply think that you have to be a Christian to ge to heaven. fine with that, their beliefs. Unfortunatly, they use this belief to degrade the status of non-christians in the eyes of God–“if they’re not good enough for heaven, they’re not good enough for here.” Justification of evil through God’s will. IF it weren’t for Jesus actually, and CLEARLY saying “love your enemies”, Christians would have probably wiped out all other religions a few centuries ago.
I remember reading of some europeans giving bibles to native americans, and were “not allowed” to kill them(by the church) until they rejected the word of god(they couldn’t read). By not “accepting” the bible, they were thought to have “rejected” it, giving the Europeans the go-ahead from the almighty to wipe out the tribe.
kinda like the holy hand grenade.
…I love the holy hand grenade from monty python. Oh, that was one of the best moments in film…orang-GU-tans, and sloaths…
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