eagle1Oh I don’t doubt it 🙂
Just stick to the information about Juppé’s visit if you cannot accept the analysis.
For the analysis I will of course agree with it : a fully developed multirole aircraft quickly available with lower risk associated with it and more likely than not cheaper to buy and operate. Besides it has an operational naval variant.;)
I will add that with the mirage 2000 exeperience in India Dassault has a good reputaion within the IAF especially when you have senior officers who did all their pilot carrer on this aircraft.
Then I’ll say than dealing with one nation and fewer companies (Dassault is Thales main shareholder) is a more secured/easy option as far as ToT/partnership/politics are concerned.
But the most important information is the MICA deal : with manufacturing facilities and ToT in India I believe it is an incentive than cannot be ignored especially when the green light was given by Indian Prime minister himself.
And the AASM is under close consideration along with an israeli option. Ther potential synergie is in itself an incentive for the rafale.
eagle1The original laguage is french and the translation is poor. It is an analysis so you can agree or not but the interesting part is about Juppé’s visit in India last October.
eagle1MBDA bags Euro 950 million missile deal for Indian Mirage 2000 upgradeDefenseworld, Jan 4
India will procure 500 air-to-air missiles from French firm MBDA for IAF’s Mirage 2000 aircraft fleet which are being upgraded by Dassault-Thales. The missiles are worth Euro 950 million, nearly three fourths as much as what the aircraft upgrade will cost. A Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) meeting chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh cleared the procurement of 490 MICA missiles, agency reports said quoting Indian Defence Ministry sources in New Delhi.The missiles would be deployed on the 51 Mirage 2000 aircraft, which are already undergoing upgrades at French facilities under a Euro 1.47 billion deal signed earlier this year.
Under the deal, MBDA will have to do offsets worth 30 per cent of the deal meaning that they will have to invest 315 million Euros back in the Indian defence sector.
MBDA already has a tie up with Indian government owned missile manufacturer, Bharat Dynamics Limited as the offsets will most likely be executed through this venture.
http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?id=6428&h=MBDA bags Euro 950 million missile deal for Indian Mirage 2000 upgrade
AASM to come soon hopefully…This with the MICA deal will be a strong incentive for the rafale.
eagle1Look what editorial was pepared for release just the day before when India was supposed to announce the winer the 8 December ! As India did not announce anything they supressed this editorial:D
eagle1You are mixing up things…
UAE development requirements are very specific while in Indian case the marketed rafale will be virtually identical to the french one. Given the modification the UAE asked and the implied price no wonder France was dragging its feets.
And one cannot ignore Dassault’s reputation in India :
Well a source close to idrw.org from Indian air force ,puts some thought into the whole upgrade dilemma which Indian air force had to go through ,it all begun at the start of the decade when Indian air force and French air force were having air exercise over Gwalior ,where IAF pitched their Mirage-2000H against French Mirage-2000-V .
Air exercise led to discovery of short fall of the BVR (Beyond visual range) limitation on the current fleet of Mirage 2000’s operated by the Indian air force against highly upgraded French Mirage 2000-V fleet .
Process and recommendation for advancing and upgrading Mirage-2000H fleet was taken. French price was too high and still is, Israel Aircraft Industries which had made illegal copies of Mirage-V jets known has “Kfir “ ,had proposed a Israeli avionics upgrade package ,which IAF found not much to their interest .
Source told idrw.org, that good serviceability of the aircraft and high mission availability of the Mirage-2000 in IAF fleet has lead to go with the French upgrade package, Mirage 2000 in last two decade in IAF fleet was the best weapons delivery aircraft and had an enviable safety record, and even Su-30MKI doesn’t have such a distinguished record.
Mirage-2000H was the best aircraft in the IAF Fleet, when Kargil War happened , even do IAF had a small fleet of Su-30K at that time , but it was not used in high Mountain warfare in Kargil ,since Su-30K were more of a air superiority fighter aircraft ,based on Su-27 airframe which lacked Ground attack capability ,until Su-30MKI joined IAF in 2001 .
Dassault Aviation which is the OEM of the Mirage-2000 was not able to reduce the cost, since the production line for the Mirage-2000 had already been closed, and all the upgrade packages for converting Mirage-2000 to Dash V standard, had all ready been carried out by French air force by the time negotiation for IAF fleet came out.
Other factors which might have worked in favour for the French aircraft manufacture. Dassault Aviation was superior after sales support and good supply chain of spares for the fleet in IAF, which when compared to Russian jets was far better. IAF also wanted to keep one of its most trusted fighter aircraft in good shape to meet future challenges ,which IAF might have to face in future conflicts
eagle1Dassault promise full ToT as well and the implementation is easier when you have to deal with one country as marketed by Dassault.
Then no one really knows what Dassault will offer (partnership, cooperation…)
Simply because they did not communicate on the commercial offer does not mean that they are behind. So it is assuming too much when you say india will be a mere customer if they go with the rafale.
On the other hand if Typhoon partners are more vocal it would be nevertheless interesting to know what is actually offered beyhond the marketed terms of partner : is it a way of sharing the costs that partner nations are unwilling to pay ? What will be the industrial share when there is already four partners ?
Two strategical thing that the rafale side is rumored to offer :
-Nuclear weapon testing thanks to France Megajoul test facility.
-Sharing of Jamming libraries of threats of Pakistani and Chinese radars thanks to France constellation of Elint Satellites.
eagle1One issue with your prediction Loke : there isn’t many thing left to share when there is already four partners…What will India manufacture as part of the consortium ? Half of a wing ? There is more room for partnership or whatever style of cooperation with the rafale. This proposed partnership sounds more than a way of sharing the costs that Typhoon partner nations are unwilling/unable to pay.
So one should not be so impressed with this kind of declarations.
As for ToT I have to disagree : with one nation ToT is easier and more straightforward.
Where the rafale can lose is on the collateral offsets : those not directly linked to the fighter itself like the opening of a R&D center, a maintenance center for civil aviation etc….This is Typhoon Gmbh best card to play thanks to EADS and BAE that have a large portfolio of activities.
eagle1That reminds me the Obama letter 🙂
eagle1At last a dassault export military sale…Kind of:D
South Korea buys two Falcon
Le FigaroSouth Korea announced its intention to purchase two spy planes to the French manufacturer Dassault, to intercept North Korean radio messages and detect any missile launch. These special versions of the Falcon 2000, whose basic model is a business jet, could be deployed around 2017, said the South Korean agency acquisition programs for the defense.
These spy planes of French Dassault Aviation will replace older appliances intelligence of the country, including RC-800 of the U.S. firm Raytheon. According to the agency, the Falcon 2000 has a wider range and can carry more equipment than the RC-800. The private jet version of this device is capable of carrying eight passengers at Mach 0.8 over a distance of 5555 km, according to the website of the French aircraft manufacturer.
eagle1The issue is tax evasion : french and german taxpayers (usually quite rich) hide money and/or revenues to avoid paying taxes in their countries. France, germany and even US in this time of crisis and budget deficit don’t like it at all…So they often threaten Switzerland and have strong words about its saint “bank secrecy ID” rule. France, germany or US basically want all the IDs of their national who have a bank account in switzerland and how much do they have. Swiss refuse that because all their powerful banking system is attractive mainly for that rule.
The best example was the US when they realized that many rich american hided money in switzerland and more precisely in UBS…So what the US did ???…They threatened to withdraw UBS license to operate as a bank in the US…So they gave all the IDs ! US won.
Germany recently passed some kind of arrangement with switzerland but that does not solve all the problem. As for France they refused all compromising and said that switzerland should be on the blacklist of tax haven countries…Just weeks before the final outcome for the fighter jet competition !!!!
So we saw right after french position a voting to forbid the rafale to be chosen instigated by a swiss politic for instance.
The case is sensitive as Sarkozy wants to be the modern Zorro who will sanitize the financial system…So as usual he can’t shut up (I mean you know his exuberant character) and makes bold declarations against all those tax haven…And that clearly irritated the swiss.
PS : bank secrecy is an issue for tax fraud but also to clean dirty money from all kind of criminal organizations. When there is an inquiry about an international drug case and you want to check some hiden/secret bank accounts it poses a problem…For this last point things have evolved a bit due to international pressure, but the rule is that you need to make a specific demand. IE : the swiss will not tell you from their own initiative who they are suspecting…
eagle1NEW RAFALE SQUADRON (NORMANDIE NIEMEN)
eagle1
upgraded digital HUD with complex bi-color symbology :
video of the HUD :
eagle1I don’t think the final choice was known since the beginning. It became obvious for swiss politics during the crisis when France and Germany attacked Switzerland on its banking system. There was even a swiss politics who started a campaign to refuse a possible rafale choice after sarkozy attacks.
Opting for the gripen is a way to remain neutral and independent for the swiss and on the top of that it has the good taste of being the cheapest option which is more politically acceptable in time of crisis.
Another factor is that the gripen was the favored choice from RUAG. All in all it is a coherent choice for the swiss if you look beyond pure performance criteria.
eagle1And here come all the excuses from the Rafale fan brigade! Its always political or a stitch up when Rafale fails to win a contest!
Anybody would think the Gripen was barely more capeable then the F5 going on what the Rafale fans fan chorus are saying! OK the Rafale performed best within Swiss requirements and technically they could afford it…doesn’t matter! The Gripen in any variant let alone the one offered is vastly superior to the current F5 and its cheaper then the other fighters on offer. Except for the cannon and AIM9X (a minor integration issue) it can carry the same munitions already in Swiss service and has an engine derived from the F404 already in Swiss Hornets.
Throwing politics in as the main excuse is weak to say the least, the contest has been going on for years and French/Swiss relations are still perfectly fine despite recent issues with the banks…certainly not enough to derail defence procurement decisions.
Frankly the Swiss have to be commended for going for the cheaper pragmatic choice…just the same as the Omanis recently rejecting Typhoon and purchasing more F16.
Ah ! the evil rafale brigade … Like it or not politics played a role if you followed this competition and it was stated by the swiss themselves. Now yes the gripen is a pragmatic choice as regards politics and finance and it will do the job fine, just it was not the favored option of the swiss air force. They thought they could do the same job with less aircrafts for approx the same amount of money.
eagle1You are factually wrong as the special financial budget allocated to the purchase of swiss jet was of 5 billions allowing to choose any of the three contenders.
It is also quite arrogant and naive to believe that the swiss airforce would pick the best aircraft but knew they can’t afford it which is irrelevant in this case as the Swiss had the mean to buy more expensive jets. I understand that your point of view has the advantage of attenuating the mediocre performance gripen tests for you so I see why you are trying to argue here.
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