eagle1And according to the latest DSI, the raven AESA radar keeps the back-end of the PS-05 radar. The Typhoon aesa will have 1425 modules or very close to that number.
P90 to p94
Overview below :
http://www.journaux.fr/dsi-_professionnelle_actualite_93320.html
edit : it was the previous issue.
eagle1“With the radar now proven, Thales will commence series production of the RBE2 for installation on Tranche 4 Rafale production aircraft.
As said the radar is ready and in production. The fact that for treasury constraints the deliveries of the rafale of the 4th batch are delayed is an independent matter.
With a developed and validated by french Mod radar the rbe2 AESA is already a reality (+ 60 on order). N°2 with the new roadmap to come this radar will get better and better.
eagle1proposed or developed is something different. And that is especially the case for AESA fighter technology. The Raven AESA radar proposed with the gripen NG is a vanilla PS-05 radar with an AESA antenna from the vixen 1000 aesa antenna. All that years late compared with american or Thales products.
In fact the main difference is funding. Not skills or experience in my opinion. Selex or thales should be quite close is that regard.
The advantage of the rbe2 AESA program is that it was supported by the french Mod as early as 2006 with the road map for the rafale F3+. So the inflow of money is more secured and came earlier. Beside The RBE2 aesa radar is already ordered and in production. in terms of “program support” this is a big asset compared to industry funding who are “betting” their own resources in an hope of a possible export sale.
For the developers/engineers the pressure is not the same as with state funding you are less under “profitability pressure” as the resource is less scarce and independent of shareholder short term benefits requirements. You can add that with a development started around 2006/2007 the rbe2 aesa program had sufficient time to do things properly.
Note that a new road map supported by french Mod for the RBE2 aesa radar is being prepared and to be adopted by year end according to Thales official. (source Air&cosmos). I don’t think that selex fighter aesa programs could keep up if states don’t oder in vast quantities or fund further developments. For now it is mostly about marketing but if no export customers materialize or if states from the gripen/typhoon don’t order that will remain sale pitch when the rbe2 aesa is already a reality.
Their is an economic limit…sate will is stronger than independent industry funding
eagle1Because some people are bored and actually like this kind of rent even if they would swear that they don’t.;)
eagle1In fact Elta made a proposal for the LCA against a derivative of Typhoon aesa radar according to the article. Any manufacturer can easily adapt the number of TRM for different aircraft types. That is one of the advantage of aesa technology.
eagle1Some big news/precision from the very well informed DSI magazine that I just bought. The main theme is AESA radar.
See the cover below :
http://www.dsi-presse.com/?p=2789
to have an overview of the magazine click below and then on “FEUILLETER CETTE REVUE” and then page 90 to 95:
http://www.journaux.fr/dsi-_professionnelle_actualite_93320.html
1) Typhoon AESA radar will have 1425 TRM or very close to that number.
2) Gripen NG futur AESA keeps the back end of the PS-05 radar but with an AESA antenna coming from the development of the Vixen 1000ES radar.
3) Elta EL/M-2052 radar has approx 1500 modules.
eagle1And the technololgy to transfer from a SH block2, F35, rafale or F22 is pretty much the same overall. There is no technology that a manufacturer could not transfer while other can.So it boils down to who offer the most guarantee in terms of ToT.
eagle1The Damocles pod is already integrated with the AdA and MN rafale and the training is currently underway.
picture of rafale+damocles training : (post 2241)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?137433-Rafale-News/page150
eagle1Some news from air & cosmos n°2253 p17 about the RBE2 AESA.
First of all a new roadmap to maintain the lead in europe for AESA radar is currently under discussion with the DGA. This new roadmap should be adopted at the end of year 2011 according to a Thales official.
Some of the improvements that will be developed are GMTI&GMTT functions as well as enhanced interlacing between AtA and AtG modes which is about software development. This is also linked to the pending UAE deal.
About the current radar a gain of 50% of range was demonstrated and validated during the latest set of trials by the AdA from september to december. Also validated the sub metric SAR pictures and higher resistance to jamming. About reliability they estimate that the antenna don’t need particular maintenance for 10 years.
3 productions radar have been ordered and two delivered right now. The first one was delivered last august. The next radars are waiting the production from the rafale of the 4th batch.
Last but not least the “thousand” module reference is still brought by Thales.
eagle1Totally agree with boom :
“operating from roadside is the product of the total system and not just one aircraft. just buying the gripen is not going to give you that capability and conversely, buying other modern aircraft is not necessarily going to preclude it.“
About take off and landing distance that should be shorter for the gripen I disagree.
In a clean configuration take off distance should be very similar with around 400m of road/runway needed for most if not all the MMRCA contenders.
But as soon as you start to hang weaponery (And that is the purpose of a fighter jet) the bigger aircraft will hold an advantage as they will be less penalized.
So roughly with a bigger aircarft you can take more weapons for a similar distance of road/runway.
So In the real life with an armed aircraft I expect the F18, Typhoon or the rafale to take off with less distance.
The Typhoon being elimintated due to high approach speed for landing, That leaves the SH the rafale with “potentially” also exellent roadside performance if the doctrine of distributed operation is ever chosen by Inida
eagle1F18SH and rafale could also easily operate from roads with even higher sink rate than the gripen when landing. It is not beacuse operating from roads is not in the doctrine of the USN or AdA that one should conclude that these jets could not do it. As navalized platform with exellent low speed handling short take off runs and robust airframe they are both eligible for that role within the same or nearly the same parameters than the gripen.
Operating from a road is nothing extraordinary and overhyped capability in my opinion.
eagle1Scorpion82,
I tend to agree with you. It was a remark about the program support. For Typhoon and rafale it is a larger customer base vs a more dynamic program support. When some of the typhoon customers want to get rid of their orders and don’t commit to further developments it is not a very good signal. Afterward it depends on a subjective perception on what is the most relevant.
eagle1Tangibay,
Scorpion82 is a sensible poster. No need to take on him personnaly:)
eagle1To answer some points that was objected to my post above :
Actually I think I am quite close to scorpion82 point of view.
1) I don’t think the F18 and F16 can be dismissed performance wise. Especially the SH, clearly superior to the mig 35 or the gripen NG in my opinion. It already offer a very modern and very comprehensive package at a competitive price. The risk associated to it is low. The only question is the strings/restrictions linked to a US purchase. On a strategic level a US purchase is a big risk for india. Another possible reproach is that both F16 and F18SH are at the end of their production or approaching. Big Offsets possible. Doubts on ToT.
2) Gripen NG : with no customer yet or bought in very small quantities by the Swedes I believe that the promise to sustain this aircraft till 2040 as claim is wishful thinking. It is a different aircraft than the vanilla gripen after all. Promise of 100% of ToT is also not as credible as other competitors as many nations are involved. Devil lies in the detail and in terms of law it might be very complicated. Main argument is price obviously. A risky bet and in terms of offsets, it hasn’t the same possibilities of other competitors. A modern design though but its smaller size brings more modest capabilities than a lot of its rivals in terms of ops planning.
3)Typhoon : a lot of political gain and a huge possibility of offsets thanks to other businesses of EADS and BAE. Capable air superiority aircraft but with mediocre AtG performance potential considering its size and price. Also late in its development.
4) Rafale : credible option capability wise. Indians are already used to french hardware with a good experience which is reassuring (good performance feedback and freedom of use). It is also modern and relatively mature with proven multirole capability. The rafale is the safest program of all contenders considering that the production should stop after 2023 on french needs only. It is a low risk option both technically and politically. Problem is the price and the offset possibilities compared EADS/BAE and Boeing or LM.
5) Mig-35 : the least chance of winning in my opinion. moderate political gain considering that the russians have already a huge impact, no diversifying and capability wise some doubts about the package and the sustainability of the program beyond indian needs. Cheap option and could be easily absorb by the IAF though.
eagle1The big advantage with the F16, SH and the rafale is that they can be actually tested with a representative capability.
I mean the MRCA is a huge purchase…Who would buy a car without trying it ? Who would buy a house without visiting it ?
It is interesting to see that often the amount of communication and “belly dancing” is inversely proportional to the degree of readiness of the aircraft.
Some manufacturers compensate this lack of representative capabilities with nice slideshows lot of superlative words “word beating etc” “superior bla bla bla…”
Every one claim to be the best…Afterward it is a question of credibility. And some are more credible than others…:D
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