Creaking DoorAny chance we can stop the willy-waving for a moment?
You mean ‘frank exchange of views’ don’t you! :p
Fair enough…..what should we talk about now? :confused:
As an experiment I switched off the engine on my (let’s call it a Mondeo for simplicity) today
There was sufficient residual power in the system to brake to a halt and steer to the kerb.
You should try the ‘braking while accelerating’ thing…..I’ll await results. 😉
Creaking DoorYes, Lexus. I looked at some before I bought the 7. They do not hold the quality inside or out. Nice, but not for longevity. The lump had gone on most of them, the screwdriver-on-ear check revealed lots of ticks and tocks.
Well, I can understand that you may have a preference but I’ve never owned either so can’t really speak from that point of view. But engineering wise, I’d say Lexus would probably have the edge. I’m not knocking BMW but Lexus didn’t exist twenty years ago!
A snapped cambelt usually ends up with a braking system known as a frozen engine.
Never, not in a million years! Even if the pistons hit the valves (which will happen in a heartbeat) the engine will not seize…..ever.
But will the average driver depress the clutch when the engine goes? If he doesn’t the crank will keep turning, and therefore the PAS will still be working, but manufacturers still have to account for PAS belt, pump or hose failure. In these circumstances the steering must ‘fail-safe’ even for a seven-stone-weakling.
I still think that despite lack of PAS and servo-assist on the brakes the average driver will be better able to stop safely than with the engine screaming at 6000 RPM and the car in neutral.
That’s just my opinion obviously…..but it is worth pointing out that on most modern cars (and I’m sure the Toyota models in question)…
…if you (gently) brake while accelerating hard the engine management computer will cut the fuel supply to the engine…..even if the accelerator pedal is jammed!
Those drivers who are confident enough should try this…..especially if they own a Toyota!
Creaking DoorYes, Lexus. I looked at some before I bought the 7. They do not hold the quality inside or out. Nice, but not for longevity. The lump had gone on most of them, the screwdriver-on-ear check revealed lots of ticks and tocks.
Well, I can understand that you may have a preference but I’ve never owned either so can’t really speak from that point of view. But engineering wise, I’d say Lexus would probably have the edge. I’m not knocking BMW but Lexus didn’t exist twenty years ago!
A snapped cambelt usually ends up with a braking system known as a frozen engine.
Never, not in a million years! Even if the pistons hit the valves (which will happen in a heartbeat) the engine will not seize…..ever.
But will the average driver depress the clutch when the engine goes? If he doesn’t the crank will keep turning, and therefore the PAS will still be working, but manufacturers still have to account for PAS belt, pump or hose failure. In these circumstances the steering must ‘fail-safe’ even for a seven-stone-weakling.
I still think that despite lack of PAS and servo-assist on the brakes the average driver will be better able to stop safely than with the engine screaming at 6000 RPM and the car in neutral.
That’s just my opinion obviously…..but it is worth pointing out that on most modern cars (and I’m sure the Toyota models in question)…
…if you (gently) brake while accelerating hard the engine management computer will cut the fuel supply to the engine…..even if the accelerator pedal is jammed!
Those drivers who are confident enough should try this…..especially if they own a Toyota!
Creaking DoorI’m not trying to insult you Old Shape…
…but I realise I’m on dangerous ground ‘insulting’ your car (I may as well have said something about the size of your *****)! 😀
My comments about ‘weaker drivers’ were intended to be just that; we’re not all six-foot-two and built like a brick ‘out-house’ so car manufacturers have to account for the seven-stone-weakling driver.
Are you really suggesting that a BMW 5 series (or any other car) loses both its brakes and its steering whenever the engine stops? What about a snapped cambelt (or chain) or simply running out of fuel? These events happen on a daily basis so why isn’t the media full of stories about these ‘death-trap’ situations when a million-to-one problem with Toyota is front page news?
With regard to a ten year old BMW versus Toyota are we including Lexus? :diablo:
Creaking DoorI’m not trying to insult you Old Shape…
…but I realise I’m on dangerous ground ‘insulting’ your car (I may as well have said something about the size of your *****)! 😀
My comments about ‘weaker drivers’ were intended to be just that; we’re not all six-foot-two and built like a brick ‘out-house’ so car manufacturers have to account for the seven-stone-weakling driver.
Are you really suggesting that a BMW 5 series (or any other car) loses both its brakes and its steering whenever the engine stops? What about a snapped cambelt (or chain) or simply running out of fuel? These events happen on a daily basis so why isn’t the media full of stories about these ‘death-trap’ situations when a million-to-one problem with Toyota is front page news?
With regard to a ten year old BMW versus Toyota are we including Lexus? :diablo:
Creaking DoorI admit it sounds simple.
Try this: On a quiet, safe bit of road while driving at 50mph (with a warm engine), put you car in neutral and then hold the RPM at the red-line while you brake or coast to a safe stop.
That sounds simple to me…..but I bet you can’t do it. 😉
Creaking DoorI admit it sounds simple.
Try this: On a quiet, safe bit of road while driving at 50mph (with a warm engine), put you car in neutral and then hold the RPM at the red-line while you brake or coast to a safe stop.
That sounds simple to me…..but I bet you can’t do it. 😉
Creaking DoorCAD packages tend to be a bit like cars; people have preferences and you’ll always find somebody who’ll swear by such-and-such CAD package. I have a soft spot for AutoCAD but it was my first. 😀
I’m a bit out of touch but I’d recommend ‘Solidworks’, a US product owned by Dassault (yes, that Dassault), who developed CATIA.
You can’t afford CATIA. :diablo:
Creaking DoorCAD packages tend to be a bit like cars; people have preferences and you’ll always find somebody who’ll swear by such-and-such CAD package. I have a soft spot for AutoCAD but it was my first. 😀
I’m a bit out of touch but I’d recommend ‘Solidworks’, a US product owned by Dassault (yes, that Dassault), who developed CATIA.
You can’t afford CATIA. :diablo:
Creaking DoorIf that was in the link then it should have been typed here.
Sorry, you’ve lost me…..if what was in the link? :confused:
And, once power is gone from my car, it is almost impossible to turn the steering, and it won’t stop either. I have done this “Just for the hell of it” on Dunsfold runway…..I was doing 40…
Real cars, not Jap heaps.
Are BMW really that bad?
All cars have provision for power-steering failure built-in; the driver has to be able to steer the car should the power-steering fail and after all this isn’t that unlikely as the power-steering pump is usually driven by a very simple ‘fan-belt’ arrangement. Yes, the steering will be harder work and it will certainly feel very different but it should be relatively easy (even for a weaker driver) to steer.
The same applies to the servo-assistance on the brakes; it will feel very different and require more effort but it is a built-in requirement that the brakes should still effectively stop the car relatively easily.
Think about how many things could cause your engine to cut-out; would manufacturers allow all of these to result in steering and brake failure too?
In the case of the brakes most servo-assistance systems allow one full application of the brakes with servo-assistance even if the engine has been switched off. If this didn’t allow you to stop your BMW from only 40mph I would suggest there is something wrong with it.
Engineering wise Toyota do make real cars…..certainly as good as anything BMW can produce.
Creaking DoorIf that was in the link then it should have been typed here.
Sorry, you’ve lost me…..if what was in the link? :confused:
And, once power is gone from my car, it is almost impossible to turn the steering, and it won’t stop either. I have done this “Just for the hell of it” on Dunsfold runway…..I was doing 40…
Real cars, not Jap heaps.
Are BMW really that bad?
All cars have provision for power-steering failure built-in; the driver has to be able to steer the car should the power-steering fail and after all this isn’t that unlikely as the power-steering pump is usually driven by a very simple ‘fan-belt’ arrangement. Yes, the steering will be harder work and it will certainly feel very different but it should be relatively easy (even for a weaker driver) to steer.
The same applies to the servo-assistance on the brakes; it will feel very different and require more effort but it is a built-in requirement that the brakes should still effectively stop the car relatively easily.
Think about how many things could cause your engine to cut-out; would manufacturers allow all of these to result in steering and brake failure too?
In the case of the brakes most servo-assistance systems allow one full application of the brakes with servo-assistance even if the engine has been switched off. If this didn’t allow you to stop your BMW from only 40mph I would suggest there is something wrong with it.
Engineering wise Toyota do make real cars…..certainly as good as anything BMW can produce.
Creaking DoorI started to flap and panic, my passenger (at the time a serving soldier and recently trained HGV driver) leaned across and turned off the ignition without applying the steering lock and we coasted to a halt.
I don’t know of any car that the steering lock will come on unless you remove the key completely from the ignition. I think that this is an ‘industry standard’ safety feature.
Creaking DoorI started to flap and panic, my passenger (at the time a serving soldier and recently trained HGV driver) leaned across and turned off the ignition without applying the steering lock and we coasted to a halt.
I don’t know of any car that the steering lock will come on unless you remove the key completely from the ignition. I think that this is an ‘industry standard’ safety feature.
Creaking DoorDid you actually read the ‘opinion’?
The ‘opinion’ was in three parts (note part one) and unless you are doing 100mph or are going round a hairpin bend the average drive will cope without power-assisted steering or servo-assisted brakes.
Have you actually tried applying your brakes gently with the accelerator pedal pressed hard down in gear, clutch out?
See what happens.
Creaking DoorDid you actually read the ‘opinion’?
The ‘opinion’ was in three parts (note part one) and unless you are doing 100mph or are going round a hairpin bend the average drive will cope without power-assisted steering or servo-assisted brakes.
Have you actually tried applying your brakes gently with the accelerator pedal pressed hard down in gear, clutch out?
See what happens.
Sign In
