Creaking DoorYou are probably thinking of G-UHIH. See here http://www.huey.co.uk/indexFRAME.php
Yes, that’s the one I was thinking of. Thanks for the link.
So with G-HUEY that makes possibly five ex-Argentine helicopters flying in the UK.
Creaking DoorSea Dart had curiously mixed fortunes, bringing down an Argentine Puma early on, and that high-altitude Learjet on June 7th (as well as our own Gazelle…), so it’s clearly a versatile missile.
OTOH there were disappointing failures such as 19th June, when two “Baco” flight Canberras and two “Pluton” flight Mirages were fired on after dark over E.Falkland, as described by Huertas in his valuable “Mirage III/V” book (Osprey 1990
Not sure I’d call this a failure exactly. Despite being escorted the Canberras managed to suffer 50% losses on this operation and although they managed to drop their bombs these achieved almost nothing.
Multiple missiles, multiple targets, chaff and possible interference from the radar of the other Type 42 destroyer radars must be the most difficult conditions for a semi-active missile like Sea Dart.
Presumably the Type 909 tracking radars are ‘coded’ to avoid interference but the early versions of Sea Dart were limited to engaging two targets at once not by the number of missiles but by the number of tracking radars.
(Preparing to be ‘shot-down’ by Griffiths911 over this point.)
One interesting thing I’ve noticed about Sea Dart in the Falklands is that almost all its successes seemed to involve a Type 42 acting alone. The destruction of the Canberra on 14/06/1982 seems to be the exception.
Creaking DoorYes she was as AE-413
(Also starred in “The Living Daylights” in her hybrid military scheme with G- reg.)
Well, I didn’t know that!
I thought G-HUEY had been imported from the USA.
Creaking Door…back in Argy markings…
I didn’t think this was an ex-Argentine machine?
Creaking DoorOn the subject of Seadart launches, this has recently been loaded onto YouTube. 😉
The first minute and a half is not very interesting and the misfire itself occurs 2 and a half minutes in.
Remarkable clip.
Amazing that as the booster ‘bursts’ it still manages (luckily) to throw the 500kg Sea Dart over the side!
It’s also quite interesting that despite there being debris and burning booster propellant all over the deck the launcher still automatically reloads another Sea Dart (albeit a red ‘handling’ round) without any problems.
As has been said there does seem to a lack of initial reaction to the fire but I’m not sure that the clip doesn’t break towards the end.
Creaking DoorI’m not sure I would class putting these forces within the range of the four 305mm (12”) guns of ‘Batterie Mirus’ on Guernsey as being a particularly good idea!
Creaking DoorThis picture was sent to me today by my Argentine contact……..has anyone seen this before?
I haven’t. Was this photo taken during the war?
Is the blue area sprayed on the wing upper surface an identification feature?
I know some Argentine aircraft had yellow identification ‘stripes’ added after some of their blue-on-blue losses but I’ve never seen blue before.
Creaking DoorIf it’s a “hands-on” exhibit what’s the problem..other than kids (and sometimes their parents) looking at you funny.
Some years ago while visiting Yeovilton I took the opportunity to clamber aboard their ‘hands-on’ UH-1H exhibit. Twenty-five assorted children weren’t going to stop me checking out this ex-Argentine Falklands war helicopter.
Half an hour of answering questions…
Does this button fire the guns…what does this lever do…is this an ejector seat?
…and the children were convinced I was some sort of helicopter expert. 😎
However from the looks I was getting, I’m sure the attendant mothers thought I was some sort of paedophile! 😮
Creaking DoorAs for the 707, their ESM can’t have been up to much as on several occasions before things went ‘hot’, SHARs got close enough to it to fly formation and take photos of it.
Not sure that this had much to do with the ESM fit of the 707 (or lack of it).
The Argentines guessed (correctly as it turned out) that the British would be unwilling to shoot down the 707 for political reasons. The fact that the 707 was unarmed and essentially a civilian aircraft could have swayed world opinion.
The Argentines could even have unfairly claimed that the 707 was a civilian commercial flight as a propaganda exercise to help their case in the UN.
As you say this was before things went ‘hot’.
The last interception of a 707 by a Sea Harrier was made on 24/04/1982 after which the Argentine government was advised through diplomatic channels that these flights would no longer be tolerated.
After that the 707 flights wisely stayed away from the aircraft carriers and stayed (just :)) out of missile range of other warships.
Creaking DoorI remember this day well. I was off-watch when we went to action stations and went to my off-watch station (spare hand, Junior rates dinning hall). I stayed there but ended up being the only one left………I got scared so went to the Ops Room and stood behind George Foster (TI Operator) and watched the attack on radar. We saw the exocet on radar (19nm…I think) and all hell broke loose. Exeter was firing Darts which became visible to our gun crews………a young Sub Lieutenant screamed on the intercom “Alarm Missile……..” so all the gunners started to fire at the Darts (miles away and well out of range). After a few moments of bedlam……Ops Room trying to get a ‘lock’ on the radar targets and the gunners firing at friendly missiles the Captain asked the young officer for a visual update and got the reply……..”Sir, I don’t know what the effing hell is going on!”. The Captain was very calm and his eyes were ‘smiling’. It was all over in a flash……….and I wish I had stayed in the bloody dinning hall.
The diagram is very interesting; thanks for posting. Is this via your Argentine contact?
I see one A4 is credited to Sea Dart (at 13km) and one to 4.5” Gun (at 3km).
What is not clear is what ship the Argentines think scored these kills. Are they suggesting that the Sea Dart was fired by Invincible herself? This would strengthen their case that the A4’s bombed Invincible but what ship do they credit with the 4.5” Gun kill (not Invincible clearly as she carried no such weapon).
How would you rate the 4.5” Gun as an AA weapon in this engagement?
Creaking DoorWe were informed that this aircraft was an Argentine reconnaissance asset and I assumed, wrongly it seems (I was a 19 year old Able Seaman), that it had the capability to ‘surface-search’ with radar and be alerted when they have been ‘locked-up’ by a Fire Control Radar with Electronic Surveillance Measures (ESM). To think they were using their ‘MarkI Eyeball’ seems absolutely unbelievable to me. Of course ESM kit would not have alerted them to our missile launch but would have given them an indication of our intent.
Is it the case, as far as you know, that they only had some kind of weather radar onboard?
I’ve always understood that the 707 radar was capable of picking-up ships but not aircraft or missiles. Maybe somebody on this forum has first-hand experience of the 707 radar?
Don’t get me wrong. The Argentines were certainly using the 707 as a reconnaissance asset so as a target they were ‘fair game’.
As we know the Argentines had Sea Dart in their own Type 42 destroyers and their own avionics industry should have been able to produce a basic ESM to detect ‘lock-up’ (but not launch). Whether the 707 carried such an ESM fit is another matter.
Creaking DoorIt’s weird, I assumed everyone would know what time of day the 707 engagement took place and all the ‘gumpf’ that goes with it.
The engagement took place in the afternoon on a bright crisp South Atlantic day. As the 707 approached our upper deck gun crews called “AIRCRAFT VISUAL GREEN…”
Ok, we can see them, albeit through a special bit of kit, so maybe we could be seen by them when a Sea Dart is launched. We have to assume the crew were well motivated to keep a good look out for a missile launch.
The other thing that has to be considered is what was the radar capabilities of the 707? Did it have a good ESM package? Did they see our launch or detect it on radar? Could they see us at that range? I just don’t know. What I do know is that they reacted very, very quickly once we launched.
As I understand it the radar on the 707 was the same as that fitted to the commercial airliner/cargo 707 which, after all, is what the Argentines acquired them for. I don’t think the Sea Dart could have been seen on radar.
Not sure about an ESM fit, I would guess not. Anyway that wouldn’t help them detect a launch. Even assuming they could detect the 909 from Cardiff that wouldn’t change when the Sea Dart was launched.
My guess is that they saw the launch, even in daylight and at 35nm, I suppose that is possible.
With regards to the spacing of the missile launches I can only remember that the missiles had around 8nm spacing between them in flight….I’m not 100% sure there. What did surprise us is the fact the first detonated short (out of fuel so they ‘destruct’) and the second, which has further to go to the target seemed to merge.
That’s exactly what I was driving at. I suspected that a Sea Dart would destroy itself when its fuel was exhausted (being a ‘proper’ missile). I suppose there is a small element of ‘boost-and-coast’ at the end of its flight but obviously not much.
As you say the Argentine 707 crew were very lucky.
I found a Sea Dart launch on ‘YouTube’. Incredible weapon!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgU9B6tQnZM&mode=related&search=
Creaking DoorThe best film about the Falklands War has already been made:
An excellent film but one that concentrates on the Argentine invasion rather that the British liberation of the islands.
Sadly Ian Richardson who portrays Governor Sir Rex Hunt has just died.
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=67610
The late Bob Peck has (IMHO) the best line in the film: “What the bloody hell are we firing at?”
Creaking DoorOr his excellent performance as Falkland Islands Governor Sir Rex Hunt in ‘An Ungentlemanly Act’.
A great actor and a great film.
Also features the late Bob Peck (what the bloody hell are we firing at!) in his best role (IMHO).
Both will be missed.
Creaking DoorOr his excellent performance as Falkland Islands Governor Sir Rex Hunt in ‘An Ungentlemanly Act’.
A great actor and a great film.
Also features the late Bob Peck (what the bloody hell are we firing at!) in his best role (IMHO).
Both will be missed.
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