Barry LCertainly true about interchangeability after the parts are curved, but surely these aircraft were designed to be easy to produce? Logic tells me that you´d need to be producing long lengths of geodetic ribs and then curving them to fit. Once you have the tooling to both produce the ribs and to curve them, then i can´t see how it´s any worse than any other restoration? I suppose it all hinges on how the ribs were curved to their correct shape? Were they built over formers as the Mosquito? Seems doubtful.
Hard to say, James – I haven’t got to discussing those points yet with Brooklands – going down there in a few weeks’ time to find out! 😉
Love those “Britain From Above” links, too – what a shame they were all probably destined for the scrappy… 🙁
Barry LJames D – the wing & fuselage geodetics will mainly differ in dimensions such as element length and curvature, so I would imagine that few parts would be interchangeable, given the compound curvatures throughout the aircraft; having said that, it could well be the connecting “gussets” on each cross-point that vary more, as they’re easier to mass-produce with stamping machinery, leaving larger or smaller gaps between elements, etc to give the longer & shorter “diamonds” (for want of a better description). I could also be quite wrong there, too… 😉
…And thanks for that, Anne – I’ll look it up! I know of a chap quite close to me who probably has the book series in his own library, so I’ll go beavering through his shelves…
Barry L…And as I heard, they’ve also “tooled-up” for parts, apparently…so maybe – just maybe… 😉
Keep these ideas rolling in, folks – love ’em all!
Barry LSounds like a good ‘plan’, Beermat! I’ll look into that, too!! :eagerness:
Barry LWell, now – just the sort of debate I’d hoped to generate here – thanks, guys!
Just shows how lacking in knowledge I am, regarding the whereabouts of bits & bobs… I knew about the tail section at Moreton-In-Marsh, and the wings at East Kirkby (had e-mails back & forth with them, about the wings! 😉 )…but I had no idea that they were from the same Wimpy, L7775… But that little ‘revelation’ raises another issue – that of the old chestnut of “War Graves/Memorials”, etc… Two men died in the crash that separated all the parts mentioned, so would there be issues associated with the use of said parts?
That aside, I also have to wonder therefore, at the likely stressed state of those damaged airframe parts – though I dare say they’d still provide excellent patterns for repro’ sections, etc..
Interesting point on the Pegasus engines, too… My Grandfather adopted the Pegasus legend as his “lucky charm” to see him through the war, as he first flew on Ops in a Mk1C with those engines… However, given their apparent scarcity, I think other substitutes will probably be necessary…and I wouldn’t discount a Merlin/Griffon-engined version at all, given that several hundred were built (I believe), and there’s a stronger likelihood of reliable, reasonable supply of those for a while.
I have an appointment for a long, in-depth meeting & chat with the folks down at Brooklands very soon, and I’ll be sure to take a bunch of questions with me on all the points raised in this thread (and in other forums); I have more than a suspicion that they’ll know the whereabouts (or maybe even possess) more parts than the public might know about!
Please do keep your pointers and ideas flowing – every scrap of information is valuable, believe me!!! :eagerness:
Barry LHmm… Looks like I’ll be blagging from East Kirkby, then… I don’t suppose a set of repro wings made from balsa wood & doped paper tissue would suffice, after all… 😉
Barry LThe name Beecroft rings a bell….did he have any association with Hooton Park? Or maybe another family member did?
Jon
I know very little indeed of the Beecrofts, unfortunately – I’ve been trying to find out if he had any sons or daughters, etc, to inform them of my Grandfather’s memoirs and the inclusion of John Beecroft’s own evasion story, but to no avail…
I understand that when Beecroft evaded back to England, he joined Pathfinders and returned to active service, and post-war, became a test pilot (I think for Vickers, but could be wrong).
If you can unearth anything about the family, I’d be very grateful! I know the house he owned was sold after he passed away, and has seen conversion to office use and now back to residential, I believe (I’ll PM the address to you tomorrow, if you’d like to have a nosey? 😉 )
Barry LJust waiting on some request answers, David – not getting too excited yet, though; there’s one heck of a long way to go with feasibility researches, parts sourcing, etc, and I’m well aware that it would be a massively expensive project in terms of both time and money… I was kidding (in a hopeful sort of way) when the lads start mentioning “bigger workshops”, almost like a hint of showing willing, etc… 😉
I live in profound hope, naturally, but my boots are firmly grounded until such time as it begins to look promising, as I feel it ought to…
Don’t know about the Wimpey in Romney Marshes, though – I’d imagine it’s in a right old state from all that water, mud & gunge; probably nowt worth salvaging by now, sadly…but maybe worth a look into…?
Barry LDoes this mean you’d like to take on the project, Firebex? Ay? Ay? Ay? Pretty Please? :eagerness: 😉 :eagerness: 😉
Happy to get started fund-raising for the expansion too, if you’re up for the challenge!
Oh – hang on…where are you guys based…? Well, that doesn’t matter – just crack on! :eagerness:
Barry LThanks, TonyT – I’d heard that from a friend who’s been there (I believe he attended on the official opening, when the BBMF Lanc’ flew over…); one day, I’d like to visit & pay my respects, too…
Barry LI’d probably go Mk3, as that was quite common in Bomber Command; MkX, if not Mk3…
John Beecroft’s home was in Willaston, South Wirral – he was the Pilot; my Grandad (Jack Love) was Obs/Navigator…
Barry LAh! What a breath of fresh air you guys are – definitely folks after my own heart!
I’ve been inside the Brooklands’ R-Robert two years ago, taking photos for my Grandad’s memoirs & get a feel for how he saw things “at work” from the Navigator’s table & astrodome; fascinating, indeed – and very inspiring for the “build” project…
I didn’t realise that they’d “tooled-up” for the geodetics, though – they kept that under their hats when I was digging there for technical info’! I’m waiting for another request reply from there right now – and twenty million sounds a reasonable fund-raising target…I’ll get cracking soon! 😉
…And thanks for those links & film tidbits – really fascinating aircraft conversion! The further I dig and research into this ‘project’, the more astounded I am to find out all these snippets and anecdotes – and the more heartened I become with all the goodwill floating to the notion, plus potential leads on parts & info whereabouts.
…And to think I thought I had left the idea far too late…
Well, in memory of my Grandad, his crew-mates and all the thousands of airmen who shared the flying hours in Wellingtons, I feel the crazy urge to splurge – and to plough on with the ‘project’ to a good finished outcome (hopefully airborne!).
If anyone here can offer any interest, assistance or leads, please either post on, or message me if you’re shy…and as soon as I get enough knowledgeable “nods” from official bods as to the feasibility and potential support from the right places, I’ll be needing to set up a proper registered charitable trust…and for that, I’ll need trustworthy, knowledgeable, enthusiastic committee trustees; any seriously interested volunteers here? If so, please drop me a message with contact details, and I’ll set up a short-list, contact candidates and see what can realistically be achieved.
Personally, even though I’ve “spawned” this mad idea, I don’t think I want to be Chairman on such a huge & complex project – I’m more of an “Ideas Man” (hence the nucleus of this project!) with a penchant for publicity & fund-raising (a wide-spread publicity campaign in mind, with some very tangential ideas forming there, believe me 😉 ), so I think the primary committee would benefit most from a Chairman who is someone who really knows aircraft technicalities, histories, etc, backed by others in specialist “departments” to collate and co-ordinate efforts in progression, etc. If anyone can either volunteer or perhaps “nominate” potential volunteers for such, then – once more – please do so by message, if possible, then we’ll see what we can do together.
I sincerely hope that enough folks will be interested in joining with me on this venture (at least in moral support), because I really feel the need to honour both Barnes Wallis and the Vickers teams, and also all the thousands of factory workers who built these incredible aircraft…and naturally the ground-crews who fettled them, and aircrews who took them up each night throughout the war…
(And Mike Davey – the pilot in my Grandfather’s Wimpey, X3472 D-Donald, was a Wirral man himself; Flt Sgt John Beecroft…)
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