Is this a known Dambuster film Lanc.?
No.
NX782 was marked as ZN-G of 106 Sqn. and appears early in the film, then I believe it is the non-converted Lancaster seen flying low over the Howden Reservoir, dropping practice bombs (not Upkeeps) on a water target. Much later on in the film, it must be the fourth Lanc, in the distance, when the crews start arriving at the dispersals.
NX673 played AJ-P, but retained it’s original serial.
RT686 played AJ-M, ditto.
NX679 played AJ-G and was marked ED932.
All these appear to have had the Lincoln rudders, and light painted spinners, so no easy clues.
I’m puzzled as to why we cannot see a serial on the Lanc in your picture. The “other two” Lancs retained their original serials, and these were painted quite light (light grey?) and so should stand out on the picture. NX679, however, was painted as ED932. I wonder if this was done by overpainting it’s true serial with a temporary black finish, then the false serial applied in brick red, the intention being that it would easily revert to NX679 after filming ended. If this photo was taken around that point, then maybe the temporary paint had faded/flaked/been eroded by weather, but not enough to reveal the original serial?
And another thing I’ve noticed.
Look at the still of Gibson and his crew arriving at ED932, played by NX679. There is a dark mark, just below the cockpit. I cannot work out what this is. Is it some kind of (oil?) stain, or has the paintwork been touched up, or has some previous marking been over-painted? Or is it actually a “widget”, maybe some kind of shroud over the navigator’s drift recorder (although I’ve never seen one before)?
Next, compare it with your photo. There seems to be a similar mark on it.
If it’s a random stain, I would suggest this is the same aircraft (NX679), but if something has been over-painted, or it is a widget, then I suppose it could be any of them, as they could all have been modded in the same way.
(The attached pictures aren’t of the best quality, but if you dabble with Mark’s photo in Paintshop or whatever, you’ll see the mark I’m referring to quite clearly).
Step up the next theorist!
Mark,
You clearly mis-spent your younger years by watching endless re-runs of The Battle Of Britain, Piece Of Cake, etc.
I mis-spent mine watching the Dam Busters, and anyone who came along with me down that route will instantly recognise one of the film’s Lancasters.
The later ‘Lincoln’ style rudders, BABS aerials, over-sized bomb, lack of exhaust shrouds, wrong paint finish, etc, all point to a (Mk. VII) film a/c.
As to which one it might be, sadly, I can see no real clues.
I think Photo No. 1 is WU-16 of L’Aeronavale, previously NX622, and now on display in Perth, Australia. Looks like the photo was taken after its arrival in Australia?
No. 2 is probably the same machine given a quick coat of Bomber Command.
No. 3 looks to be one of the Dam Busters (film) aircraft. I’ve never heard of them being displayed at an airshow, but why not? Great publicity for the film!
And thanks for sharing them!
I am familiar with Night Bombers and the footage I was referring to as possibly being colourised isn’t from that film (at least, not the version I have on VHS). It’s the very last scenes, and having watched it again, I’m pretty sure the original footage was in black and white.
I’m also pretty sure that Night Bombers was filmed in late 1944, or early 1945 as there is a scene of a Rose turret being installed in a Lancaster, and these weren’t introduced until then.
I believe there was to be an attempt to dub proper audio onto the film, the script being written by lip reading from the original footage. Has anyone seen such a version?
Copyright issues aside, I think he made a pretty good job of that video.
He seems to have found wartime footage that I haven’t seen before.
And I wonder if some of it has been colourised? Some of it looked familiar, but only in b+w.
HE ALSO SAYS THAT IT CAME OFF OF A PLANE THAT WAS BADLEY DAMAGED ON A ATTACK ON ANTWERP IN 1940 ( NO 83 SQUADRON ) .
All adds to the sales potential, doesn’t it?
Here’s a B24 wheel from the collection for comparison purposes…
(it’s still a nice bit of kit, though!)
I can state with some certainty that the first flight will take place in the period 14th – 24th July 2007.
Why can I state this so confidently?
Because I will be sitting in a field, with no access to the internet or telly, and I will only hear the news after the event.
I can feel it in my water.
You can place bets on it being so…:( 😉
Steve,
When I view the page in Firefox, there’s a blank space where I assume the trailer is, and Firefox tells me to download the plug-in.
When I click to download it, I get a response “unknown plug-in” and that’s as far as I can get.
Cy Grant, eh? Never knew he served in Bomber Command.
Not from a sight, it’s an Observer’s Compass, Type S.O.2.
Observer (O) Type Compasses:-
These are primarily intended for taking bearings from aircraft. Types O2 and O3 were fixed on mountings in the Observer’s position (Standard Type O5) and bearings are taken by directing sights on an azimuth circle onto the object and reading the compass card through a reflecting prism.
And here’s one by Short & Mason.
This is the best I can come up with Deryck, but it may not be the version you are looking for as faces varied according to manufacturer – this one’s Negretti & Zambra.
If it’s of assistance, I will email you a higher res. version.
Regards,
682al
(Even if it’s not the right design, it at least shows you how the luminous paint was applied and this should be the same for each manufacturer.)
Also, anyone who would like to have an Aerojumble stall would be welcome for a small fee, I can put you in touch with the organiser.
I pm’d you last month about this but received no reply.
Can you tell us anything about the aerojumble, i.e. has anyone actually booked a stall, or is all a bit vague?
Details such as fees, person to contact, etc would be welcome.
That said, the weather forecast is iffy and I’m not sure I’d want to sit out in the rain all day.
So the model is not really wrong. We can say that some, if not all, of the special Lancasters of 617 used for the Dams raid, had this FN64 installation.
But I’m saying the model is wrong!
The Upkeep Lancasters had a single Vickers Gun mounted in the position originally used for the FN64 turret, but in no way is this the same as saying they had the FN64 fitted.
Two quite seperate things.
To clarify things, early Lancasters were fitted with FN64 under turrets which carried two .303 Brownings (the extract from Bruce Robertson’s book is in error).
The 617 dam busting Lancaster’s are said to have had one .303 Vickers gun mounted in the under fuselage (probably in the original FN64 mounting point). There is an internal photo of such a gun in situ in Harry Holme’s book on the Lancaster and it is intriguing to think that this might be the 617 installation.
Hope this helps.
Lancaster Mk 1…this carries an F.N. 64 ventral turret with one Browning 303
Two Brownings actually. 🙂