Malaysian airliner was shot down by air to air missile. When BUK missile explode by proximity fuse, it explode spherically, so fragments fly in all directions and HE-FRAG warhead have around 70 kg. On the picture we could see, that fragments went horizontally in one direction only like with shot gun and toward the engine. This indicate the missile was IR guided R-73 or R-27T from Ukrainian fighter.
You have no idea what caused those holes, have you? You were able to decide what caused the downing of the airliner just by looking at photographs online? Your talents are wasted on this website, you should get a job with ICAO or NTSB or some other organisation, I’m sure you’ll save them a lot of money.
Looks like stabilizer parts. Possible warhead fragmentation damage?
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Could be caused by fragments from the missile, or it could be caused by parts of the plane itself – blasted into high speed by the explosive blast of the missile (or even of the aircraft itself exploding)?
Just dug out my old (but useful) copy of Jane’s Land-Based Air Defence 1997-1998. Looking at the specification of the 9M38M1 it has a 70Kg HE fragmentation warhead with a radar proximity fuse, presumably it would be most likely to go up near the fuselage. I would think the damage would be rather different to an R-73 with its small 7.4Kg blast fragmentation warhead homing on an engine.
Would an R-73 even take out a B777 anyway? Maybe just take out one of the engines, if even that?
Is it not true that the US, by appointing Victoria Nuland, the neo-con, as its top European State Dept. official — and then licensing her to try to convert Ukraine to NATO, is it not true that this is primary seed of the Russian reaction? The US mindlessly(?) kept its Cold War drive for NATO expansion right under the Russian skin.
No, it’s not true, not remotely. The problems in Ukraine certainly predate Ms Nuland getting her new job – or any other American getting a new job either. Who tells you this büllsh!t?
http://pissinontheroses.blogspot.fi/2014/07/alert-777-shoot-down-video-shows-chaff.html
Looks like you have exceeded yourself today Paralay. This is the sort of link that would be posted up by someone who gets their news and current affairs from: CN, Cartoon Network.
Indeed:
Осколочно-фугасный снаряд > HE fragmentation shell; high-explosive fragmentation shell
Let me find out the difference between ‘Осколочно-фугасный БЧ’ and осколочно-стержневой БЧ – but it seems to me that they are both fragmentation types?
And even more Russian propaganda ( lies!)Buk missile system uses missiles with blast fragmentation warhead (and it took me 5 min to check )
specially for paralay in Russian
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%D0%9C317#9.D0.9C317
Indeed:
Осколочно-фугасный снаряд > HE fragmentation shell; high-explosive fragmentation shell
Actually you’ve made a good point. The ‘western’ standards and illusions that I have been referring to are not intrinsically western — that is merely their manifestation both in this specific circumstance, and in global-historical terms. The root phenomenon, however, is power. All centres of power-consciousness will attempt to disseminate values and standards that favour themselves and turn accidental or contingent qualities into virtues, or eternal truths. The shared delusion known as ‘Russia’, for instance, is certainly no stranger to the discourse that elevates state-based interests above those of e.g. Chechen separatists. This is why Edward Snowden had such difficulty finding a safe haven: his actions struck not just at the US government but at the perogatives that all states have assumed and wish to extend in perpetuity. This is why, despite the great service Edward Snowden rendered to the world’s citiziens, it took a very particular and rare kind of nation — one with both an interest in poking the United States in the eye, and the strength to endure the consequences of doing so, to take him in. And even then, Putin made Snowden’s stay conditional on not doing anything further to destabilise the system in which Russia, too, has so much invested. Germany, in contrast, despite owing so much to Mr. Snowden, wouldn’t lift a finger for him — because Snowden, being possessed of ideals transcending the nation-state, is a threat to Germany as well.
I guess I agree with most of the above.
So powerful countries like to stay powerful and will do whatever it takes to stay top-dog, and that includes a full-spectrum media propaganda process, the bullying of small neighbours, and tit-for-tat diplomatic exchanges. There is nothing new here Rii. All such powerful countries, which exist both today in most of recorded history, are and were guilty of unduly exerting their influence and power (both soft and hard). All of such countries came from all of the five inhabited continents too…
On the contrary, I’m pointing out that western standards for what constitutes a legitimate conflict between legitimate actors are rubbish, convenient fictions that are, of course, deliberately designed to favour western interests. The real world is much messier, and the vast majority of conflicts in it do not conform to western standards of highly trained, well equipped, and uniformed individuals doing battle with one another in some kind of carefully choreographed ballet. Of course, in the real world western conduct has rarely adhered to these ideals either, but convenient excuses are always found in such instances (“but they’re terrorists!” being a favoured one of late) or preferably never come to light in the first place, non-white people so rarely having cameras, telephones, etc. on hand to document their suffering.
vleugolmoer‘s chainsaw analogy is a perfect illustration of the total disconnect between western illusions and the real world, where desperate people will do desperate things with whatever means are at their disposal. Can you imagine this guy lost in the woods, freezing to death rather than attempting to operate the gas-lit stove because he hasn’t read the manual? There is a war going on, the enemy is employing airpower to its advantage, You have a a Buk surface-to-air missile system on hand, but no trained operators to go with it. What on Earth do you do? The answer is obvious; unless, of course, you live in some western fantasy bubble where war is a convenience, to be fought (or not) entirely on one’s own terms, without the slightest inconvenience to broader consumer society.
Speak for yourself Batman… I have no wish to disabuse you of your belief in the existence of ‘western standards’ (give us a clue of the geographical location of this place called the ‘West’ and what these ‘standards’ might actually be). – but I wonder where such a discussion might a have place in a thread about a Malaysian airliner flying from Europe to Asia being shot down by a missile over Ukraine by Russian speaking seperatists – how many nationalities were the victims native to originally?
Last i checked, F-106 out-ranges MiG-31 by a wide margin while having a significantly lower fuel fraction,
and a similar speed with AAM.
Because of far superior aerodynamics, which in part is due to single engine, and half weight.
I wonder if the F-106 could supercruise without afterburner with a full internal payload?
There are not interceptors in the west, and the last attempt, te F22 was a failure in that field.
When did the USAF declare the F-22 a failure?
…as much as small fighters tend to imply long range, see P-51 & Gripen E.
But on a 2nd thought small fighters is not compatible with internal bays, or they will look and fly like a brick,
i cant see how its possible to keep 6 aam internal on a stealthy Gripen, even F-35 only hold 4
Didn’t the P-51 have a very high internal fuel capacity, i.e. high fuel fraction as well? Wasn’t this high fuel fraction/long range possibly the most important factor in making the Mustang a success in aerial combat? Don’t know much about the Gripen E combat radius, but if a Gripen had an internal bay it wouldn’t be a Gripen anymore.
…fuel fraction tells more, along with aerodynamics.
It would have been better if it was a single engine design, both from fuel burn and aerodynamics,
but fuel fraction will still have a big say
Fuel fraction would be a good thing for a Japanese air defence fighter, but a high fuel fraction tends to imply a large aircraft, or is this not true?:confused:
Hey … it’s only a technical demonstrator for research purposes; nothing more, nothing less. Maybe comparable to the X-29, X-31 ….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_ATD-X
To admit if this project ever evolves into something larger to become a so called F-3 to replace the F-15J I don’t know – to admit I’m highly sceptical since this one would require much, much more (most of all higher-thrust engines) – but so far it will be used to test technologies.
Oh, I’m not criticising the plane or the project or whatever it is supposed to represent. It will be interesting to see what it will lead to in the future, certainly.
BY the way a comparison to the F-5E Tiger is interesting:
General characteristics ATD-X – F-5E
A comparison with the Gripen would be even more interesting.
how so ?
To ward off waves of Chinese H-6, JH-7s and various Flanker derivatives, BVR weapons and large radar would be ‘de rigueur. Lots and lots of fuel on board too, to cover all of the Japanese islands.
air to air missions ?
To provide the air defence of Japan – that would presuppose a large aircraft, wouldn’t it? think of Tornado F.3, MiG-31, F-15.