An “aerodyne”?

And what do you mean by small arms fire, assault rifles and 7.62mm type machine guns? I should think most jets and other aircraft can “take on” such enemy fire these days?

What’s the difference on a radar scope. Also, long range radar with long wavelength probably couldn’t differentiate between a 777 and a MiG-29 in its wake.

Whose radar – Buk missile operator’s? Of course.
So you are admitting that the downing of a Malaysian airlines Boeing 777 was indeed the result of a tragic mistake carried out by separatists operating a medium-range SAM system?

But Su-25 doesn’t carry R-27.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]230664[/ATTACH]

Botswana Air Wing BAe 125-800 which survived a direct hit from an R-60 or R-24 missile in 1988

On 6 August 1988, the Botswana Air Wing British Aerospace 125-800, flown by Col. Albert Scheffers (CO Botswana Air Wing) and British Aerospace transport pilot Arthur J. Ricketts, carrying the president of Botswana, J. K. Quett Masire and eight other passengers, was underway at 35.000ft over Angola. All of a sudden, those on board heard a loud bang and there was an explosive decompression of the cabin. The aircraft yawed, rolled and dived almost at once and then a shower of fan blades from the starboard Garrett TFF.731-5 engine was observed as it separated away from the aircraft and went in forward direction. The aircraft was hit by one of two R-24R/AA-7 Apex missiles fired at it from an Angolan MiG-23ML interceptor. The first missile hit the starboard engine and ripped it together with the entire pod off the aircraft. The second missile failed to track. Col. Scheffers regained control of the aircraft at 28.500ft, completed an emergency shutdown and thus preserved the other aircraft systems. 2.000lb of fuel in the right wing and one engine were lost, and there was extensive damage to the right wing and flaps. The aircraft spiraled down and then landed at Cuito Bie, in Angola. Subsequent inspection reveald that the hydraulic pump, starter/generator and alternator were still attached by hoses and cable looms. Angola apologized to Botswana for the missile firing, especially as usual air traffic control clearances had been received before the presidential trip. Nobody on board the aircraft suffered serious injuries, and the aircraft was subsequently repaired. (Photo via Tom N.)

http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=62

Also: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19880807-0

The main advantage is altitude. You come in directly from above not on the level with them. That’s my experience against Ka-50s in an A-10C on DCS anyway. If you’re in an attack aircraft with no radar then the only real problem is knowing they’re there when you come into to strafe ground targets, otherwise piece of cake.

In the ’70s you can understand the problem. Poor radar detection of targets near ground level, no IRST, missiles only effective at short ranges etc. These days I don’t even think you’d bother wasting an AAM. A Brimstone should do the job.

Well, I’m sure modern aerial warfare is not an online computer game, but I agree with most of your points. I’d say a modern gunship like an Apache or Mi-28 would be well worth an air-to-air missile – and wouldn’t be a difficult target for the missile either.

No less than most of the posts in this thread. The interpretation of these events, ranging from ‘unfortunate casualty of war’ to ‘Putin as baby-murderer’ is governed largely by how one interprets events in Ukraine more broadly (i.e. Civil War vs ‘criminals’, ‘terrorists’, or simply ‘Russian special forces’) which in turn goes to the nature of western engagement with Ukraine, the assumptions (illusions, ignorance, etc.) involved and how those are promulgated through the media.

Who called Putin a baby-murderer? there has been some mad speculation in this thread alright. But look at the identities of the posters promoting some of these mad theories.

I almost posted this in the historic aviation forum, but I don’t think the Cold War was that far back.

Anyway why didn’t the French and Germans especially build attack helicopters like the Americans and Soviets? The Germans relied on the far less capable armed Bo-105, they could’ve at least bought some Cobras. The French could’ve built a derivative of the Puma like the South Africans eventually tried to do. There’s no reason they couldn’t built something like a Hind with Puma or even Super Frelon parts. It did seem both countries were very lukewarm towards the concept until they got their acts together jointly developing the Tiger.

What do you mean by attack helicopter? Does the definition really exist in any NATO military? Lynx with TOW, Gazelle and BO105 with HOT were justa s well equipped for attack as some AH-1 or Mi-24 family.