Wessex FanIn answer to a few of the comments:-
The relevant passage from ‘HPSauce’s’ original comments is:-
“But am I the only one to find it odd – to say the least – that The Dam Busters could be remade? I mean, why? To what cinematic end? I find the prospect embarrassing, no matter how convincingly the Lancs are depicted.”
James D
“Your point being…? Seems like a reasonable objective to me. I´m sure that’s the reason the film was made originally.”
My point in relation to “HP’s” original observation, was that for someone contemplating the making of a big budget movie, the cinematic end is first and foremost that the chosen subject will make money. Things such as historical truth may end up taking second place, having said that I hope that this version of the Dam Busters story will be worth watching!
James D
“So tell us what it is that makes the original film so sacred and iconic that it could never be improved? Is it the stilted dialogue, or the bad effects that you find particularly appealing?”
I just happen to like the manner in which it was made despite the occasional continuity problem, as for special effects the only one I really hate is the water splash made by the bombs in the Dam sequences, really awful. Regardingthe stilted dialogue referred to, in form and content is it that far removed from what might have been said at the time, I do not think so.
DCK, I take you point about bringing the subject to a new generation; I will await the Peter Jacksons 21st century effort with interest.
Cheers
WF
Wessex FanLate on this thread, but there’s a point here – apologies if it’s been mentioned already. I dare say hardened aviation buffs couldn’t care less, but when the Germans have argued in the past that the Brits seemed unnaturally obsessed with WW2 I had some sympathy: all those bloody stupid TV shows like ‘Allo ‘Allo, Colditz, Dad’s Army… It’s stating the obvious to suggest that those on the losing side won’t be quite so keen on hostilities being continually resurrected in movie form, but am I the only one to find it odd – to say the least – that The Dam Busters could be remade? I mean, why? To what cinematic end? I find the prospect embarrassing, no matter how convincingly the Lancs are depicted.
I can dimly recall being taken by my dad to see the original in the mid-1950s, must have been in King’s Lynn since he was stationed at RAF Feltwell at the time. Years ago I read “Enemy Coast Ahead” – must re-read it. I admired the Lanc at the RAF Museum, together with my son: he’s half-German, my wife being from the Ruhr, but he’s interested in aircraft of all kinds. I’ve walked around the Mohne Dam. I recall feeling surprised when my wife’s Uncle Juergen (just old enough to get drafted into the Hitler Jugend, died recently) told me he’d watched The Battle of Britain in an English cinema, and enjoyed it. But I just don’t get the point of a remake – and they’ll be even more baffled in Germany. The raid had little or no strategic effect, though it was a great technical feat and a propaganda success, and courageously executed. Let sleeping dogs lie, i say.
‘HP’ asks why make a remake of the Dam busters, from a film makers perspective I suspect the answer is first and foremost that they hope to make lots and lots of money! My own opinion is that a new film of the Dam buster’s story should not be made; let the original stand as a testament to the bravery of the aircrew involved!
Since the entertainment industry has decided to produce a new version of the epic story, I will be happy if it honours the men who flew the mission!
However if the makers of the new Dam buster’s film happen to read this I do have one suggestion, make a movie about the Operation Cerberus ‘The Channel Dash’. The story has everything, but most of all it is the story of 18 swordfish crew who in my humble opinion where the bravest of the brave!
One Victoria Cross was awarded, it should have been eighteen!
WF
Wessex FanThe Dumfries Museums latest incomer is a Westland Wessex. We have most of the instruments and photo’s of their placement, the rest of the interior is a shambles and is very gloomy, I’ll have to put in lighting of some sort to see what I’m doing. Has some kind person any information as to what goes where in the rear compartments.
Ken
Hi Ken,
You may be aware that the Ulster Aviation Society has a Wessex, I can provide you with a set of photographs showing detail of the main cabin. depending on what you are looking for, I may be able to help with sections from the AP’s.
Please send me a pm if interested!
Regards
Eric
Wessex FanHi All,
I agree with all the comments about Hendon being a great museum; however it is nothing less than a national disgrace that a national museum is so under staffed(for under staffed read under funded) that parts of it are only open for restricted periods.
EG
Wessex FanSome interesting comments on S. V. Setty, I have no doubt that he was involved with the aircraft previously mentioned, being responsible for the design of and flying them is another matter! From the Avro experience certificate it seems that he worked in all parts of the company including the Avro Flying School.
The use of English in the certificate is very much of its time, however the two items of particular interest are:
1> The reference to his time with the flying school, it seems clear that as well as working on the aircraft, he at least had the opportunity to gain some flying experience. (Having had a look through Appendix E of “History of British Aviation 1908 – 1914” it does not appear that S.V. Setty gained an Aviators Certificate from the Royal Aero Club)
2> Again from the Certificate it seems clear that he had gained sufficient practical experience working on aircraft, for the company to be happy with his ability to erect (assemble) and rig an aircraft.
I have no doubt that S. V. Setty could have designed a successful aeroplane (i.e. one that would fly), others with a great deal less engineering experience did! However the question is did he do the things claimed for him while he was with Avro? I have seen no evidence to make me think that he did, so for the moment my answer has to be I doubt it!
Having said all this, I am glad that I now know of him and something of his role in aviation History.
E Gray
Wessex FanEvening All,
The “Avro Curtiss-type” as described in A J Jacksons book was built to the order of Capt E.W.Wakefield of Kendal in 1911. It was constructed at Manchester and delivered to Brooklands on May 25th 1911 the first flight being on the 19th June (It was not a floatplane at that time). It was operated by the Avro School for a short period before being dismantled on July 7th 1911 and moved to Lake Windermere.
At Windermere the wheels where replaced with a single float, plus cylindrical wing tip floats, in this form the aeroplane made its first flight on the 25th November 1911. The press where invited to an exhibition flight two days later, the favourable description’s in the press seem to lead to the name ‘lakes Water Bird’ being adopted.
The aircraft was in use right through the winter of 1911 / 1912 until March 29 – 30, 1912 when water bird was damaged beyond repair due to the collapse of its Hangar. The aircrafts successor known as ‘Water Hen’ was designed and constructed by Capt Wakefield’s Lakes Flying Company during the latter part of 1912.
As to Info regarding S V Setty’s involvement in the design of the aircraft previously identified, study of period aviation magazines and any surviving AVRO records may be of some use.Other than that, posting on forums such as this with the hope of coming upon someone with more personal knowledge may well be Mark’s best bet!
Regards
Eric Gray
Wessex FanAccording to “Avro Aircraft since 1908” by AJ Jackson the information you require is as follows:-
The type ‘D’ was designed by A. V. Roe, the aircraft was erected at Brooklands in March of 1911, it appears to have been powered by a 35HP Green engine and first flown on April 1st by C. Howard Pixton.
The Duigan Biplane seems again to have been designed / developed by Roe, power was provided by a 40HP horizontally opposed Alvaston driving an Avro airscrew. First flight was made at Huntingdon Racecourse flying ground in early December 1911. The flight was no more than a hop! The aircraft was returned to Avro and re-engined with with a 35HP E.N.V and flew again in March 1912, the aircraft was however still underpowered. Working as his own mechanic Duigan designed, manufactured and fitted his own airscrew and tuned the E.N.V engine, both efforts improved the aircrafts proformance.
The ‘E’ and ‘500’ again seem to have been designed and developed by Roe.
The 504 fuselage and undercarriage was designed by “Messrs Chadwick and Taylor” wings where designed by H. E. Broadsmith.
If you can manage to get a copy of the book, it should answer many of your questions.
WF
Wessex FanAn interesting question, firstly I have to admit to taking far more images than I will ever use, I just love taking pictures!
I think that when you first start to take aviation pictures, you blast away at everything and joy of joys once in a while you will get an image that really pleases you, that one image will encourage you to keep at it and take better pictures.
When I go to a show, I already have a good idea of the type of picture I want, sometimes that will mean using a high speed frame advance, sometimes I will quickly compose and take one image, it all depends on the location and the occasion.
Yes I sometimes get the process badly wrong and end up with an image that is clearly out of focus, or is really badly framed but these are generally a small percentage. The greater percentage fail because they are just not the image I am looking for, I do not delete these, they may be useful sometime.
Near the top of the heap are the good solid images that may be used to illustrate some article or other, while at the top are those that really please me.
The problem for those of us going to air shows is that we are taking pictures of a three dimensional fast moving object with a pilot in it, what the pilot does in his machine will greatly affect the image we take, the simple fact is that his reactions will be unknown.
Rather than dwell on the percentage of good and bad pictures, I think we are better off just looking at the results of our labours and asking the question, am I happy with what I have taken? If the answer to the question is No, then look your images, identify the problems with your technique and do better next time.
WF
Wessex FanHi all, just wondered if some of you would share some knowledge.
Q1) On the shots where your subject is clearly at infinity, do you set lens to infinity and let DoF do it’s duty or let the AF work?
Q2) I have a Canon, I note a lot of you guys do to. Do you have the AF (Pending Q1) set on “One shot”, “AI Focus” or “AI servo”?
Q3) To get your stunning panning shots, do you set the camera on single shot or multi – the latter of course gives you more hope of a perfect “No camera shake” shot whilst panning at Airshows etc.
I am not a newbie to photography, been taking since 1970, cut my teeth on a Zentith!! But, I never did master perfect Airshow pictures, sticking more to the abstract such as close-ups of fuselage detail and such.
(Don’t tell me your lenses, I go green. Your lenses cost 5 or 6 times my BUDGET for a car!)
In answer to your questions,
1> I let auto focus do its work.
2> The camera will generally be set on AI Servo.
3> The camera will be set on High speed advance, however I will try to stick with taking single shots, although not always!
I hate to say this but the attached was a perfect example of point camera and press button. I thought the aircraft was leaving the circuit, instead he turned and did a low level run down the display line, I just lifted the camera, framed the aircraft and pressed the button, I just hoped it was in focus!
Regards
WF
Wessex FanJust like that F-15E did last year.;)
Apologies if it sounded like I was trying to be a smartarse, you are quite right about last year’s F15, although I believe it was a special case!
I can think of one or two other occasions, when a fast jet has put in an appearance, all be it behind the museum and not as part of the display!
I have attached a couple of last year’s visitor!
Regards
WF
Wessex FanIs duel control where pilot and co-pilot fight each other for control of the aeroplane and dual control where they take turns nicely? 😀
Sorry Tangmere, a slip of the finger, however thinking about it, you may be right!
WF
Wessex FanWill the F-22 Raptor be putting in an appearance at Legends?:D
If it suddenly gets piston engines and a big prop!
Wessex FanGreat News folks!
WF:):):):):):)
Wessex FanI cannot agree more moggy!
WF
Wessex FanSadly with living in Northern Ireland we tend to miss out on these things, I was lucky enough to attend the BBMF Bash at Duxford last year, but as far as I am aware the Flight did not make one appearance in Northern Ireland during their 50th Anniversary year.
We have our share of those who served this side of the Irish sea, it would be nice to see them honoured in style before it is to late I was talking to a former Stirling pilot who attended the funeral of his last remaining crew member last week. Sadly we are rapidly losing a generation to whom we owe so much.
WF
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