tomahawk21looks like the inner differential control for a turret of some type, tank or aircraft, i have never seen an aircraft with a differential type flap control but could be wrong.
tomahawk21anyone want a P-39 / P-400 / P-63 cockpit project? will make a good flight sim
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tomahawk21edit: i agree, thanks
tomahawk21tiger moth parts
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/322393576659
and
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/322393597109
tomahawk21Wiki has a long referenced entry for this type which reveals a variety of factors including tumbling and Bell fudging the performance to get acceptance..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_P-39_Airacobra
tumbling is bs
tomahawk21the only solution to all of this:
ban pilots over 25
ban planes older than 5 years
ban grass strip operations
ban people from driving without crash helmets
ban everything
apply bubble wrap to everyone
then we will all be safe, until something else happens
tomahawk21Elliott, you offered me, separately, not together, a few crusty old windscreen parts, some crusty old access panels and a crusty carry through spar that was drilled in the wrong section, nothing even close to airworthy. an airworthy spit leg is worth about 2k aus on average, they pop up every so often. i told you i would take engine mounts, gear leg or airacobra parts, but if you think im just going to give something away because you think it “belongs” with your project then you need to get on the meds again. i help out plenty of museums with things, i gift, trade, sell to support my projects and others, but i dont help anyone with attitudes like you.
i did not ignore everyone, there were many conflicting opinions, you just believe that your opinion and only yours is the correct one, it was passed on as an FN4 turret, not a lancaster one.
tomahawk21…with respect to all contributors to this thread, and hopefully not upsetting the mods any further…. we all know there is a very worthy, viable restoration project being embarked upon to see an otherwise extinct Whitley bomber come back to life and in need of an FN4A or B to help see the job through.
…i have absolutely no connection with the Whitley project people, and although I feel collecting a very rare item just for the sake of a bit of capitalising later on is OK, it can also appear a bit mean spirited to the “family” here that makes up the forum/restoration crew to have something obviously not needed where it is, but otherwise quite needed elsewhere to see a worthwhile project out to a completion.
…I extend my apologies to all for the heavy handed first post of mine earlier in the thread….sometimes a bad day or a frustrating niggle can lead to a somewhat ill considered outburst……Cheers to All
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs Comrade! down with capitalism!
Forgive me Commissar i think that this:
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was a very equitable trade for a very rare turret, i shall send myself to the gulag.
if Elliot wanted/needed it so badly he should have offered a better trade, and reevers was probably still willing to trade it, except i think that some people here may have burnt those bridges now with these attitudes.
tomahawk21Of course I can! For starters I think we can all agree that as far as four gun tail turrets go, the Lanc started off with the FN20 tail turret, which was then developed into the FN120.
The FN20 was a development of the FN4. Both equipped with 4 x .303 Brownings but the FN4 carried their ammunition supply within the turret (4 x 1000 round containers, two on the left an two on the right side and situated in the “turret drum” in front of the air gunner’s feet, and arranged in a chevron fashion, ie in an angle towards the turret’s centre line). The FN20 was equipped with a servo feed unit and drew its ammo from boxes situated in the rear fuselage of the aircraft. I may be mistaken but I believe those fuselage boxes contained 2500 rounds per gun, in any case substantially more than with the FN4. Using up those 1000 rounds per gun in the FN4 would only take about a minute of continous firing…
Construction wise those two turrets are quite different too. On of the main giveaway’s is that in the FN4 the gun cradles (onto which the guns are mounted) are held in substantial cast brackets, clearly shown in the below drawing out of AP1659A (sorry but can’t seem to get the drawing attached upright:confused:) :
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In the FN20 they did away with those cast brackets and the gun cradles were mounted in a very distinctive frame, clearly shown on the below drawing, also out of AP1659A :
[ATTACH=CONFIG]245789[/ATTACH]
Clearly, if you have an FN20 without that frame, you’ve got nothing to support the gun cradles.
And there are more differences of course, the FN4 uses articulated empty shell/link ejection shutes which slide up and down in runners following the upwards/downwards motions of the guns, all very complicated. The FN20 has simple fixed shutes which you can see sticking out below the guns on the above drawing. And the FN20 is a bit more complicated inside as well as the bottom of the turret drum has a non rotating, ie fixed, central portion where the ammo belts enter the turret.
If you compare the FN4 drawing with the turret you acquired, Reevers, you will agree that that is what you have. Great turret though and definitely worth restoring.
As I pointed out to the previous owner in the other thread, the FN4 came in A and B versions, the B not having oxygen supply for the gunner and used on flying boats. If the rotating service joint is still in place on the bottem of the turret then on the B you should only find hydraulic fluid entry and exit points, whereas the A has an oxygen supply pipe in addition.
This is the rotating service joint on the Brussels Army Museum FN4A prior to its restoration, the small diameter pipe at the bottom is the oxygen supply:
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With the connection that Australia has with the Sunderland I’m pretty sure it’s an FN4B though.
Do let us know when you manage to look underneath please!
Cheers,
Walter
it has a bit like that under it but i dont think there is anything off the side of it
tomahawk21You can keep calling it a Lancaster turret until you are blue in the face if you like, but it will still be an FN4. These were not fitted to Lancasters. It may have originated from a yard a Lancaster was scrapped in does not make it a Lancaster turret. This was explained to you very carefully before you went ahead and sold it Tristan. To sell it as a Lancaster turret is not right.
Also, as previously explained, the mod plate on the turret is unmarked. This turret was never issued and either sat in the stores or was used used for ground training. If it had come off a Sunderland I would expect it to have some mods on it at least, but there are none. Take a look at the mod plate – it’s plain to see. We (the Brits) had a funny habit of shipping oddball turrets out to the colonies during WW2 for training purposes. Mike Berry owns an FN16 turret front turret in Canada. No FN16 was used operationally in Canada, again, it went out there for training purposes.
Take it from someone who has been studying and restoring these turrets for the past 16 years.
What you have there is just over 1/3 of an FN4 turret. The cupola is missing and a number of internals are absent too. My offer to exchange some choice Spitfire parts for it still stands.
The problem with rebuilding an FN4 is a lack of parts – there simply are none. They are not interchagable with other Fraser Nash turrets. I have a pile of parts collected up from crash sites in the UK over the years – enough to make a new cupola and replace the missing parts. Other than that I honestly do not know where you would obtain the missing parts from.
i sold it as an FN4 turret, reevers was aware that it was an FN4 turret, there is no need to get cut Elliott because i had a better offer than your rusted out spitfire gear leg, if you want something make a fair offer next time
tomahawk21Tomahawk, the images in the link you provide show Short Empire flying boats. They were never fitted with turrets.
However, your link does lead onto: http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a26.htm and http://www.adf-serials.com.au/sunderland.htm which shows Short Sunderlands in RAAF and RNZAF service.
i see now, what type is it here?
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the turret is 100% and FN4A
tomahawk21Queenie iv
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tomahawk21so it came from RAAF base Tottenham in victoria, where our lancaster was scrapped, our Sunderland’s didnt have turrets by the look of these photos http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a18.htm
i cannot see how it could be anything other than Queenies turret
Ex ED930.
Named Queenie VI but affectionately known just as “Queenie”, ED930 departed UK for Australia on 22/05/43.
Routed via: 22/05/43 Prestwick – Montreal (15:45 hr), 24/05/43 Montreal – Toronto (02:20), 27/05/43 Toronto – San Francisco (13:10), 30/05/43 San Francisco – Honolulu (13:00), 31/05/43 Honolulu – Palmyra Is (9:45), 31/05/43 Palmyra Is – Canton Is (4:50), 01/06/43 Canton Is – Nandi (6:40), 03/06/43 Nandi – Amberley (8:40), Total Fight Time 74:10 hr.
6/06/43 Received 1AD ex UK
9/06/43 Issued New Zealand ex 1AD (Flight time 7 hours 37 minutes)
20/06/42 Received 1AD ex-NZ (Flight time 8 hours 29 minutes)
24/06/43 Renumbered A66-1
15/08/43 and 5/10/43 status cards states “On tour” referring to War Bonds tour around Australia
22/10/43 Queenie flew under the Sydney Harbour Bridge. (Pilot FLT LT Peter Isaacson) Still holds the record as the largest aircraft to do so.
Crashed 26/10/43, Evans Head. The a/c suffered a wind change when landing and ran off the end and ended up in a ditch severely damaged. Repairs needed 10 crates of parts to be sent from Canada and took until 4/04/44. Initially thought to be a write-off, it turned out to be the biggest field service repair in RAAF history.
It did about 500 hours flying after the repairs, including converting all the DAP test pilots and 52 Qantas pilots for the Lancastrian operations which began in 1945.
Flown from 1 OTU East Sale to 7 OTU Tocumwal 08/08/45.
To 7AD 14/01/46 for storage.
Approval given for conversion to instructional airframe 15/10/46.
To Care and Maintenance at Tocumwal for conversion 12/11/46.
To 1 OTU East Sale 04/08/47.
Approved for conversion to components 07/06/48.
Considering Queenie had no war service it was sold for scrap to a dealer in Maffra Vic. in 1948.
tomahawk21100% piston provost
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tomahawk21Looks like it is for sale now – this ad on Barnstormers:
WWII LANCASTER GUN TURRET • ACCEPTING OFFERS • Very rare FN-4 or FN-20 Fraser & Nash 4 gun turret either from Lancaster or Sunderand missing cupola • PHOTOS HERE • Contact Tristan Masterson, Owner – located Bolwarra, NS Australia • Telephone: 0481308223 . • Posted April 24, 2016
or trade
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