ianwoodward9For Adrian Gray, concerning the ‘Frog’ advert:
The book is entitled, “The Royal Air Force In Pictures – including Aircraft of the Fleet Air Arm” (Third Edition – Revised and brought up to date – June 1942) prepared by Major Oliver Stewart (the editor of “AERONAUTICS”) and published by “Country Life Limited”.
It looks like you can buy a copy for as cheap as £2.99 including postage. I’ll PM you the link.
Coincidentally, my copy (which has a faded cover and lacks a dust jacket) bears the inscription, “TO ADRIAN from Daddy Christmas 1942” and cost me 3/6d!
ianwoodward9And to illustrate that it is still worth seeking other old aviation adverts, here’s a BEA one from March 1961:
ianwoodward9I wasn’t aware of that ‘aviation ancestry’ site, Lee Howard, and it’s wonderful. Thanks for posting the link, which is now bookmarked.
So far, I’ve flitted around it to get some notion as to its scope and comprehensiveness – and it is comprehensive. I did scroll fairly quickly through all 157 BEA adverts (Mum used to work there) only to stop part way through and scroll back to #123, as I thought I’d recognised one from a book I have. The ad was by Abram Games, who was mainly known as the designer of posters (the controversial 1941 “Blonde Bombshell” ATS recruitment was his, as was the 1951 Festival of Britain poster and the associated material). In the late 1940s, he did work for BEA and then for BOAC in the early 1950s and for BEA, again, in the late 1950s [those are the rough dates of which I’m aware – there may be others]. If you google “Abram Games images” (or something similar), you’ll find lots of examples of his work. I’ll slip in three his BEA designs at the end – including the design on which that advert #123 was based.
Meanwhile, if you have any interest in this subject, you will find the ‘aviation ancestry’ website worth visiting, though there are other adverts to be found in other publications.
ianwoodward9The advert below is from 1935 and, despite the name “Seaboard” and the words “Air Line”, I could find no connection with Seaboard & Western Airlines, which was founded post-WWII [there may be a connection but, if so, I didn’t find one].
You may, then, wonder why I have posted a railway company advertisement in this thread. It is because, in the same newspaper and on the very same day, there was an article about an air-conditioning system being considered for Pan Am Clippers based on the system used by some railway companies. I thought that the ‘juxtaposition’ might be of interest to others, too.
Seaboard ran trains to Florida and it was in Miami that Pan Am was developing the ‘air con’ system for Clippers. Coincidence?
ianwoodward9And others again are more peripheral:
ianwoodward9Others show complete aircraft:
ianwoodward9As ZRX61 showed, some old aircraft books have lots of aviation-related advertisements. This one (in which Messier show the undercarriage for a Halifax) is from a British book published in June 1942:
ianwoodward9This late-1930s advert shows the prototype Harrow:
ianwoodward9I, too, would be interested to know that, as I’m not a lawyer but a few comments might not go amiss.
The image I posted was clearly an Eastern Air Lines advertisement. It came from a general newspaper which, should you select an article, that article will have a separate copyright notice attached to it. However, while the articles are ‘searchable’ by title, by writer’s name and by subject, the advertisements are not. You only find them by trawling the pages and, when you find them, there is no copyright notice.
I have also done this in other (non-aviation) magazines and, just sometimes, there is a copyright notice that has been applied (retrospectively) to certain of the advertisements but they are quite few in number and usually only when the organisation that placed the advertisement (50 or more years ago) is still in existence and still in the same line of business. I should add that, on occasions, I have been asked for copies of such items for their current use, since sometimes they have ‘lost’ the originals (or, at least, cannot access them).
That’s the corporate side; there is the other side – the individual who created the original artwork. If that person worked for the organisation that placed the advertisement, then, almost certainly, their terms of employment meant that ownership rests with the employer not the employee. If, on the other hand, the original artwork was prepared by an outside agency or by an independent ‘creator’, it would depend on the nature of the contract between them but, commonly, there would be a fee paid which would include passing ownership of copyright to the advertiser.
Finally, if the copyright were held by the organisation that placed the advertisement and if that organisation has subsequently gone out of business and thus ceased to exist, then surely there can no longer be a legal entity to assert the copyright.
That’s how I would see it but a lawyer specialising in intellectual property rights or copyright law can maybe put me straight.
ianwoodward9And, with luck, you’ll now be able to read the copy from the ad in the previous post:
ianwoodward9I was racking my brain to remember where I had first read about BOAC’s use of Wellingtons and then it struck me – in one of Peter Moss’s articles from long ago.
He wrote that the Wellingtons were loaned to BOAC pending the arrival of the Warwick but, because of various technical issues, the Warwicks never actually entered service with BOAC and the RAF supplied Dakotas in their place. One of the routes intended for the Warwicks was Lisbon to Benghazi.
Peter Moss also wrote that the Wellingtons were on loan from September 1942 and were converted at Asmara for civilian transport use. Also, starting on 26 October 1942, they flew three services: [1] Cairo – Karachi, [2] Habbaniyeh – Sharjah and [3] Cairo – Sharjah. The last of these three services ran via Lydda, Habbaniyeh, Shaibah and Bahrein but was very short-lived, ending on 8 November 1942. The other two routes were presumably operated by the Wellingtons until early July 1943, just prior to the four aircraft returning to military duties.
Peter Moss gave a slightly different set of dates for their return to duty: B.A.W.3 and B.A.W.4 on 17 July 1943, B.A.W.1 on 22 July 1943 and B.A.W.2 on 26 July 1943.
It is possible that subsequent research has yielded different, and perhaps more complete, information.
ianwoodward9Thanks for the links, longshot. I’ve never seen the book but, having looked it up on-line, it seems to be more comprehensive than would suit me. I suspect that the story of the B.O.A.C. Wellingtons forms but a very small part of its content.
However, Google Books has a few extracts from the Steve Bond book available on-line. One says that the four Wellingtons in question stayed with BOAC until July, when they transferred to 28 Squadron of the SAAF and were replaced by Dakotas. Another says that 28 Sq of the SAAF was formed, on 1 June 1943 at Castel Benito (Tripoli), as a transport unit, equipped with Ansons and, pending the arrival of Dakotas, with the four ex-BOAC Wellingtons. A further extract says that the four Wellingtons stayed with BOAC until they were replaced by Dakotas. More specifically, three of the Wellingtons arrived with 28 Squadron 19 July 1943 and the fourth (the one in the photo that longshot posted) a week later, on 26 July 1943.
In terms of their replacement Dakotas, we should presumably be looking at which of these aircraft were available to BOAC by mid-July 1943.
Six Dakota 1s, supplied under Lend-Lease, were allocated to BOAC in March 1943; these were: G-AGFX, ‘FY, ‘FZ, ‘GA, ‘GB and ‘GI. All six are shown on their registration documents as being based at Leuchars but only the first four had made flights to Stockholm prior to mid-July 1943. The last two of the six were not used on that route until 1944 and, since it is unlikely that they sat around idle at Leuchars, I assume that they were used on other routes. Peter Moss wrote that BOAC Dakotas (as opposed to the BOAC/KLM DC-3s) operated on the Lisbon Run from 11 May 1943. Could G-AGGB and G-AGGI have been the aircraft allocated to the Lisbon service at that time?
After the Dakota 1s, a number of Dakota 3s were supplied to BOAC. As far as I can see, only four of these were available to the Corporation by mid-July 1943 (before the Wellingtons were handed over), namely G-AGHE, ‘HF, ‘HK and ‘HL. Peter Moss wrote that BOAC first used Dakotas on the Cairo-Takoradi route on 20 August 1943, by which time G-AGHN and G-AGHO were also available to BOAC. It seems to me quite likely that the Wellington replacements were from among these particular aircraft but I could be very wrong.
Is my logic borne out by any contemporary documentation? Indeed, any comments at all?
ianwoodward9Thanks for the link and the photo, which I had not seen before. The serial number is legible but not the “B.A.W.” number. Do we know which of the four this was?
I note the brief source details (“Bob Landry 1942-11”). Does November 1942 sound about right?
And, apart from the more detailed questions I posed in the earlier post (# 377), I have one very basic question – Why? Why was it necessary to allocate four Wellingtons to B.O.A.C.?
To put it another way: what was gained by their being under the B.O.A.C. ‘banner’ rather than simply being a detachment of the R.A.F.?
ianwoodward9This is slightly off-topic, I’m afraid, but concerns the four Wellingtons IC that BOAC operated for a period in the Middle East and/or North Africa.
As I understand it, they could not be certificated as civilian aircraft for technical reasons so retained their RAF service numbers but were given nose markings ‘B.A.W.1’ to ‘B.A.W.4’. I assume that the “B.A.W.” stood for “British Airways Wellington” but stand to be corrected. One of them is shown in the image below.
There are a number of questions that come to mind:
[1] Were they actually owned by B.O.A.C.?
[2} If so, what were the dates of ownership? (precise dates if possible)
[3] What role or roles did they perform?
[4] What routes did they operate?
[5] Where were they based?
[6] To which airports or cities did they operate?
[7] Were their crews civilian (i.e. BOAC staff) or military (i.e. RAF or other allied air force personnel)?
[8] If technically civilian but with RAF serials, could the BOAC Wellingtons (indeed,did they) fly to any neutral countries?
[9] Did they revert to the RAF?
ianwoodward9Another Clipper clip – this time in New York:
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