ianwoodward9[1} It’s an interesting question, Graham. The HP42 was indeed a 1930s airliner based on what I might term “1920s thinking” and I read somewhere that the Board of Imperial Airwaya were wedded to the idea of biplane airliners. And, I also recall reading that G-AAXF/AS983 was deemed, after an accident in the summer of 1940, to be structurally unsound and that was why it ended its flying days, becoming the squadron office at Donibristle as depicted in the photo posted by sabrjet in Post 393 above. I think there is little doubt that the HP42/45s were coming to the end of their working lives. Nevertheless, the attrition rate after they left Imperial Airways service was strikingly high.
[2] Another great photo, longshot, and, yes, I reckon it’s the same night, too. When I referred to “another photo” in Post 394, it was also to one of Ensign G-ADSS but not the same photograph. The one you posted is lined up on the starboard wheel of the main undercarriage. The one I found was lined up on the port wheel of the main undercarriage and was taken at about 8.43 pm. Though it is less clear than I would like, i think the photo you put up in the previous Post was taken a couple of minutes earlier. In all, then, that makes four photographs taken on the Croydon apron that night (the one with three Ensigns and a DH86, the two separate photos of Ensign G-ADSS and the one of HP42 G-AAUD attached to Post 394). There must be others.
ianwoodward9A great set pf photos, sabrejet. While it was sad to see how G-AAUE and G-AAXF met their fates, I had been intrigued by the descriptions in words, so it was valuable to view the images. Likewise, a nice clear image of G-AAUD in its warpaint gives an indication of how these aircraft were rushed into service in France at the outbreak of war.
Your confirmation that none of the HP42/45s flew after 1940 was also most welcome. After so many years of service with Imperial Airways without any losses, it seems striking to me that none survived long in wartime use (or misuse)..
Moving to the attached image, among the photos I got given in my youth was a nighttime shot of three Ensigns and a DH86 at Croydon. It is an Imperial Airways publicity photo and I’ve since found another photo on-line that appears to be of one of the three Ensigns, the one in the background in the photograph I have. I thought it unlikely that Imperial would have engaged the services of a professional photographer to take just one or two photos, so searched a bit further and came across the attached shot of G-AAUD. I suspect it was taken on the same night but can anyone provide more details, please? The date perhaps?
ianwoodward9A short while back, there was discussion as to the BOAC fleet numbers in or around January 1943. The attached list shows the BOAC fleet a couple of years later, In March 1945.
Though the details related to March, they were published shortly before VE Day (8 May 1945). So, just a few weeks later,, it would be revealed publicly that the BASE shown as “L——-” in the listing was in fact Leuchars. These were the aircraft engaged on the Stockholm Run.
The list shows 168 aircraft, of which 142 were regarded as ‘first-line‘and the remaining 26 as ‘training types‘. This division is not shown clearly in the list, however. Only the 11 Oxfords, the single AT-7 and the single Catalina are actually marked as training aircraft,. We might perhaps add the Anson (based in South Africa) and the “military-serialled” Hudson (based in Montreal) and maybe the two Sunderlands with military serials but I’m not sure. Even then, the total would well below 26 training aircraft; so, presumably, some of the ‘airliner-types” were actually used for training purposes.
The accompanying article says that the Warwick was operated by the Corporation’s Development Flight “for research work“.
Of the grand total of 168, 73 were British-built and 95 were American-built. In terms of “first-line” services, a somewhat different picture emerges, since most of the aircraft types acknowledged as being used for training purposes were British-built. The balance of aircraft between British-built and American-built is much influenced by the presence of 57 Dakotas in the list, roughly one-third of the overall total.
There is no reference to the KLM aircraft that BOAC leased, nor to the Lodestars owned by the Norwegian Government.
ianwoodward9Further to the previous post, Mr Wilkie was delayed by 24 Hours in Bolama. Apparently, he was on the ‘proving’ flight for the winter route – the southern transatlantic route – and there were Pan Am and CAB representatives on board. The reporter believed that they wished to check radio services and other terminal facilities at Bolama. It may also have been that the second leg of the journey, to Port of Spain in Trinidad, would become the longest non-stop commercial airline flight in the world at 3120 miles – expected to take about 19 hours of flying. From there, it would be about 4½ hours to San Juan, P.R. and a further 10 hours to New York or Baltimore.
According to details of overseas air mail services, given elsewhere, the Dixie Clipper was due at La Guardia at 8 a.m. local time on 9 February 1941. This was confirmed on 10 February when the previous day’s air mail services were reported: “Arrived – Dixie Clipper left Lisbon Feb 5, arrived Bolama 6 and left 7, arrived Trinidad 8 and left 8, arrived San Juan 8 and left 8, arrived New York 9″. It was also reported that the Dixie Clipper was due to leave again on the 12th , to arrive later that day at Bermuda, then to fly on to Horta and Lisbon the next day.
To return to the Dixie Clipper’s proving flight on the southern route, as well as Mr Wiikie and his party, Juan Trippe, Pan Am’s president, was on board. He said that the new route had been ‘entirely successful’. Captain Gray, who commanded the flight, commented that the harbours used were ‘very satisfactory’ and did not suffer the swells experienced at Horta in the Azores. Dixie Clipper had flown 7459 miles (2110, 3120, 619 and 1610 miles, leg by leg) and the total flying time was 52 hours and 34 minutes. This apparently included circling Dakar ‘several times’ as the local Governor invited them to land but; in the end, the offer was declined in order to maintain the schedule. There was, however, no reference to the subsequent 24-hour wait at Bolama.
The assistant chief of the air carrier inspection section of the CAB, who was accompanied by two CAB inspectors, described the flight as ‘very successful’. Clearly, Pan American expected speedy approval of the route because it was not only said that it would become the route for all westbound services but that these would start with Yankee Clipper, due to leave Lisbon that very day.
Trippe also commented on some other matters. He praised the new Lisbon airport that was under construction and said landplanes were being developed for Pan Am to take over from the Clippers. He added, however, that Pan Am had ordered six more Clippers, three of which would be turned over to the British Government.
ianwoodward9I was checking some contemporary newspaper reports recently and came across a couple of American articles about the end of Wendell Wilkie’s visit to Britain in early 1941. Both mentioned his place of departure. One stated, “Wilkie left Bristol by plane yesterday for Lisbon“, I was a bit surprised to see Bristol named, given the care that the British authorities took to keep it out of press but the USA had not yet entered the war, of course. It was a contrast to the report of an American journalist flying in the opposite direction almost a year later, in early 1942: “‘Where am I?’, I asked. A pleasant English voice named a town I cannot mention (for military reasons)”.
Wilkie had flown into Sintra and his onward journey was due to be aboard the Dixie Clipper via Boloma, Port of Spain and San Juan in Puerto Rico, due to arrive in New York on 8 February 1941.
They say timing is everything and it was fortunate for Mr Wilkie. Just over a week later, on 16 February 1941, a hurricane hit Lisbon (and many other places, too). The reports vary in content. One said, “The airfield at Sintra was destroyed, wrecking 10 Portuguese military planes“. and that “The big British flying boat Clyde …. broke away from her moorings and sank at the Cabo Ruivo clipper base” killing “one of the three Portuguese guards on board“. Another reported 125 mph winds and said “airport hangars were demolished” and “eight planes were destroyed and a Spanish airways Douglas Transport badly damaged“.
ianwoodward9Though HP42s have featured recently in this thread, the attached image shows nothing about the camouflaging of these aircraft. It does, however, show an HP42 from an unusual angle – namely, seen from above. I trust you will forgive my posting it here.
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ianwoodward9Nice photo, duggy, and new to me.
On the right is the ‘old’ terminal building at Kastrup with the ‘new’ terminal building under construction on the left.. A photo of OY-DEM being delivered on 15 November 1938 shows the ‘new’ terminal building finished or perhaps still under construction. If the latter, it is quite a bit further on in the process – the highest section is now glazed, for example.. The ‘old’ building looks a little different in the OY-DEM photo but the ‘tower’ on the top is a bit of a giveaway, as is the chimney on the end of the building. This suggests to me that the date of the photograph is mid-1938 rather than 1939.
I attach a copy of that OY-DEM delivery day photo.
The line of people at the bottom of the photo, all turning to look at OY-DAM flying over, suggests a special occasion of some kind – perhaps the delivery day for OY-DAM, 14 July 1938
ianwoodward9Here’s an image of what I assume to be one of DDL’s Condors (not a Lufthansa one) in the winter of 1940, as passengers go out to board , walking past piled-up snow. The photo was most likely taken at Kastrup but, unfortunately, the quality is rather poor.
ianwoodward9The following is what I can gather about the FW-200 Condor OY-DAM shown at Schipol in the photograph presented by longshot in Post # 385.
OY-DAM flew the DDL service from Copenhagen via Amsterdam to London (or, rather, to Shoreham) from 13 November 1939 to 3 January 1940. It was a daily service (into Shoreham one day, back to Copenhagen the next, returning to Shoreham on the day after that, and so on) but whether it made every one of those flights is not clear. The dates that are known, however, do fit that pattern. As far as I can gather, it bore what DDL called nationality markings, as shown in the attached image.
On 4 January 1940, the London service was taken over by its sister ship, OY-DEM, so that OY-DAM could undergo a 1300-hours overhaul. Its heating system was also modified to bring into line with that on OY-DEM. The overhaul of OY-DAM was completed on 7 February 1940. It is believed that it was, during this overhaul, that OY-DAM was repainted in the overall-orange neutrality scheme.
The weather in Europe was dreadful in Europe from the end of January 1940 to the beginning of March 1940. There was heavy snow and lots of ice. Shoreham was closed for operational flying for much of this period. Even when there was respite, the airfield became too waterlogged for much flying. The weather in Denmark was also dire, so bad that many of the regular shipping/ferry services could not operate. DDL stepped up its internal air services to take over some of their supply/communications functions. The two Condors were drafted in to take part in these activities.
DDL’s London service restarted at the beginning of March, using OY-DAM. Though sources seem to differ as to the precise date, the outbound flight from Copenhagen could well have been on 1 March 1940. There is also slightly contradictory information as to the regularity of this service in March 1940 and into the beginning of April 1940. What is well documented is that OY-DAM had arrived at Shoreham on 8 April 1940 for its standard stay overnight, during which German forces had invaded Denmark. Denmark then became occupied territory and OY-DAM was impounded by the British authorities.
The photograph posted by longshot was most likely taken in March 1940 – or possibly very early in April 1940.
ianwoodward9Oops. My mistake. I hadn’t realised that those three photos were not taken at Whitchurch. Thanks for getting me back on track, longshot.
On the subject of the orange-overall neutrality colours, my understanding is that KLM started this practice prior to being invaded in May 1940 and following the incident in late October 1939, which I mentioned before. One of its DC-3s had been shot at and hit while over the North Sea. The pilot landed the aircraft safely at Schipol but one passenger, a Swede, died as a result. KLM decided to paint its aircraft orange and suggested that the airlines of other neutral countries do the same. I’ve not seen it mentioned before in this context but orange, as well as being a colour that stands out, is also the national colour of Holland, so might be regarded as appropriate for KLM.
Anyway, Belgium and Sweden followed the Dutch example and adopted the overall-orange paint scheme for their aircraft.
Even prior to this, however, ABA of Sweden had applied, what might be called, the original neutrality markings. From at least May 1939 onwards, their aircraft, still bare metal, had ‘SWEDEN’ or ‘SCHWEDEN’ painted on their undersides. At the outbreak of war, ABA then adopted what might be called an interim neutrality paint scheme. The aircraft remained in bare metal but ‘SWEDEN’ was painted in large letters along the fuselage above the line of passenger windows and a large Swedish flag was painted both on the tail and above and below the outer wings. The colours of the Swedish flag were also painted on the nose.
Then came the overall orange scheme which, as I mentioned before, is usually ascribed to KLM. There is, however, an anomaly in the dates that I have read in different sources. One stated that the attack on the KLM DC-3 that prompted the adoption of the orange paint scheme took place on 26 October 1939 while another says that, on 25 October 1939, ABA advised the Air Ministry that its aircraft would be painted orange like the KLM planes. If anyone can resolve this difference, I would be pleased to hear.
Meanwhile, DDL in Denmark did not at first accept KLM’s suggestion to paint its aircraft orange overall and adopted a scheme that was rather like the interim Swedish one. This seems to have been used in November and December 1939 and the overall-orange scheme was only applied around January 1940.
The above is my understanding of the sequence of events and I would welcome any corrections or supplementary information.
ianwoodward9Thanks for the information, lazy8. A quick on-line search shows that 615 Squadron had been based pre-war at Old Sarum, during which time its Gauntlets were replaced by Gladiators. Then, in September 1939, it transferred briefly to Kenley (an old base for the squadron) and next, quickly on to Croydon.
Perhaps 607 Squadron staged through Whitchurch to link up with the various support aircraft that you mention, lazy8. Then this group flew to Croydon, where they joined up with 615 Squadron before the mini-armada (2 squadrons of Gladiators and those support aircraft) flew off to Merville.on 16 November 1939. It must have been quite a sight. I think the surviving Gladiators were abandoned in France.
If this idea is correct, then the photos posted by longshot were likely taken at Whitchurch just before mid-November 1939.
Many thanks, lazy8, for the information on the history of the tricolour underlining of the BOAC civil registrations. It was very useful but I would make two points. These were not truly neutrality markings, in that they came in after war had been declared and were borne by aircraft of one of the parties to the conflict. Also, the overall orange neutrality paint scheme, with the country name in large letters, was first applied by KLM after one of DC-3s had been attacked on 26 October 1939. B
ianwoodward9Again, some great photos, longshot, that I don’t recall seeing before. They seem to have been taken on the same day some time in the autumn of 1939 but I wonder on what date.
There are various Gladiators around and they carry the “AF” code of 607 Squadron. Some time in November 1939, the squadron transferred from RAF Acklington in Northumberland (now the site of a prison and young offenders institution) to Merville in Northern France (close to the D-Day beaches and where a static invasion-striped Dakota is on display, I believe). I would conclude that the photos were taken some time in November 1939
Does this seem a reasonable conclusion? How does this fit with the other aircraft seen in the photos?
I seem to recall that, in September 1939, various Imperial Airways and British Airways Limited aircraft, having been dispersed to Whitchurch, were speedily and rather haphazardly given a camouflage makeover. The colours were not the standard ones. If there were standard camouflage patterns, they weren’t used. It was an ‘all-hands-to-the brush’ situation. The Ensigns in the three photographs, for example, seem to lack the red,white and blue banner under the fuselage registration marks. Would this be consistent with a photograph taken in November 1939?
The BAL Fokker XII (G-AEOS) that appears in two of the photographs (and perhaps, more distantly, in the third) does not appear to have been camouflaged at all. Maybe, if it was not to be used in France, it was not on the priority list. I attach an earlier photograph of it in BAL days and its colours seem unchanged. Again, would this be consistent with a photograph taken in November 1939?
ianwoodward9Been away from a PC for a few days.
Terrific photo, longshot. I just love the bikes and the kids surveying the scene, innocently excited. Apart from G-ACJJ “Scylla”, is it possible to identify the individual aircraft?
The webpage the photo came from was really interesting, too, nd the additional information from lazy8 was very informative, too. Great stuff.
The support to the BEF in France and the other aviation activities in continental Europe in that period predated the establishment of BOAC as a legal entity. Who would that make the owner(s)?
I found an image of another HP42 in camouflage but there was no other information identifying the date or place. The “G” is hidden by the RAF roundel, the “AAU” bit of its civil registration is still visible under the lighter shade of camouflage paint but the final letter is obscured. Does anyone know which aircraft it is?
ianwoodward9I too suspect the camouflaged HP42 that Graham mentions was in RAF service at the time the photo was taken, as lazy 8 suggests.
My understanding is that, when the order came for the HP42Es to return to the UK, G-AAGX happened to be in India, so had to return to the Cairo base first and, whilst en route, went down, in the way that lazy 8 describes.
The other two (G-AAUC and G-AAUE) were in Cairo, I believe. They made their way back in silver finish but with some addition to the markings to meet the requirements of the French authorities. Though the latter were requisitioned/impressed on the dates stated, their civil registrations were not discontinued until 7 and 25 July 1940 and it was only then that their military serial numbers (AS981 and AS982) were applied.
In respect of the demise of G-AAUC, it was carrying ammunition to Stornoway when both starboard engines failed a mile north-east of Whitehaven and it force-landed on rough ground, whereupon the undercarriage collapsed and the lower engine on the port side caught fire. The crew got out before the aircraft exploded. I’ve seen the location also given as Moresby but, since both Moresby and Distington (that’s the right spelling, I’m pretty sure, as I lived in north Cumbria for 25 years) are on the right orientation and roughly the right distance from Whitehaven, it’ll be the same location.. The payload for an HP42E was supposed to be 7000lbs and ‘AUC was reportedly carrying 3000 lbs of ammunition – was it really overweight? But then, two of the four engines had failed and both on the same side, too.
G-AAUE also suffered engine failure during its RAF service but just one engine and with less disastrous results. Following a force-landing, it was able to return to Doncaster on three engines.
ianwoodward9The “Handley Page” / “Halifax” references certainly present a conundrum, Graham. I hope I haven’t misled you in the layout of the chart. The italicised aircraft types were not on BOAC’s books in January 1943 but in later months covered by Tony Doyle’s research. I’ll come on to this a liile later, as I have been doing a bit of digging.
Meanwhile, at the outbreak of war, the former Imperial Airways HP42/45s (or some of them, anyway) were used in Northern France,as i recall, but were no longer in use by the end of 1940. Whether any of them were ever given camouflage markings is something I don’t know off-hand.
Returning now to the chart, Tony Doyle reported ‘1’ in the “Handley Page” category and ‘2’ in the “Halifax” category but at the end of 1945 not the beginning of 1943. I suspect that Tony Doyle’s original chart was mis-typed or something and these three were the Halifax aircraft (PP325, 326 and 327) that Peter Moss wrote were provided to BOAC and flown to Whitchurch in late-September 1945 Combining information from both gentlemen, this appears to be the situation. Apparently, though Whitchurch was their listed base, it was not really suitable for them, so they were temporarily hangared at Weston-Super-Mare before transferring to Hurn, from where they flew freight on the Accra route in October and November 1945, supplementing the Dakotas which could then carry more passengers.. The first of the three was written off the following year and the other two got civilian registrations by September 1946 (G-AIAS and G-AIAR respectively). Both were later returned to the RAF but subsequently reappeared .on the civil register with other owners.
BOAC had other Halifax aircraft, too. For example, I attach the registration certificate for G-AHYH. BOAC is shown as the first owner but this wasn’t until 1946. Moreover, there is a note on the document that it actually operated under RAF markings, presumably as PP261. As far as I can establish, this particular aircraft was on loan from the RAF for training purposes, perhaps in connection with the arrival of the Haltons on to the fleet list, as you suggest, Graham.
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