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ianwoodward9

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  • in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #792480
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    The table below is derived from research undertaken by Tony Doyle, who produced a set of BOAC fleet statistics from January 1943 onwards based on a manuscript volume at the Air Ministry. The original volume contained a note saying that a time lag in getting these statistics might have resulted in some inaccuracy.

    A few notes on the table:-

    1. It is from the end of January 1943 and shows the number of aircraft by type (‘L’ is for landplanes and ‘S’ for the flying boats)
    2. The aircraft types shown in italics are those for which stats appear on later dates but not in January 1943
    3. I have shown the aircraft types listed for January 1943 IN BOLD and then added the numbering at the start of each line (the rest is Tony’s work).
    4. ‘Handley Page’ and ‘Halifax’ are on separate lines in the original, as shown here (but seethe next note – Note 5).
    5. It seems that where ‘Dakota’ and ‘Lodestar’ appear twice, this is because training aircraft are listed separately from what I might call ‘service’ aircraft, even if they are the same ‘aircraft type’ (this may apply to the separate lines to which I refer in Note 4 above}.
    6. No Dakota of any kind is shown in January 1943 but ‘Dakota’ appears in the tabulation from February 1943 onwards. The other marks of Dakota do not appear until 1945.
    7. Bearing in mind previous discussions in this thread, I should point out that the four Wellingtons appear in the table up to the end of July 1943. There are no statistics for August and September 1943 and the Wellingtons are not listed when the statistics resume in October 1943.
    8. The training aircraft in the list below are the Oxfords and the Beechcraft.

    BOAC FLEET @ 27 Jan 1943

    1. Airspeed Oxford………………………. L 4
    2. AW Ensign…………………………………L 9

    3. AW Whitley V …………………………….L 7
    Avro Anson
    Avro York
    4 . Beechcraft AT7 ………………………..L 1
    5. Consolidated Liberator I…………… L 5
    6. Consolidated Liberator II………….. L 8
    7. Consolidated Liberator III…………. L 2
    8. Curtiss Wright CW 20 ………………..L 1
    9. DH Frobisher …………………………….L 3
    10. DH Flamingo…………………………… L 6
    11. DH Mosquito ……………………………L 1
    DH89 Dominie
    Douglas Dakota
    Douglas Dakota I
    Douglas Dakota I
    Douglas Dakota III
    Douglas Dakota IV
    Handley Page
    Halifax
    12. Lockheed 10A ………………………….L 2
    13. Lockheed 14 ……………………………L 2
    14. Lockheed 18 Lodestar…………….. L 25
    Lockheed 18 Lodestar
    Lockheed Hudson II
    15. Lockheed Hudson III………………… L 2
    16. Lockheed Hudson VI……………….. L 9
    17. Vickers Armstrong Wellington …. L 4

    18. Boeing 314A ……………………………S 3
    19. Consolidated Guba ………………….S 1
    20. Consolidated Catalina…………….. S 3
    21. Short G Class ………………………….S 1
    22. Short S23 ………………………………..S 10
    23. Short S30 ………………………………..S 2
    24. Short S33 ………………………………..S 1
    25. Short Sunderland ……………………S 4
    Short Sunderland

    The end result is pretty close to the 26 figure quoted in the article to which I referred in Post # 363

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #794132
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    It is indeed a surprising figure, Graham, and, on reflection, it’s unexpected enough to be suspect in my mind. It just has to be less straightforward than it seems on the face of it.

    From my long-ago working life, the task of counting things or counting people in largish organisations, and placing them in categories or particular groups, was rarely as simple as it seemed. The result could depend on who did the counting, on what dates they did it, how they classified the things or people being counted and what outcome was expected or hoped for in the first place.

    It is perhaps worth saying, in respect of the article, that the reference to the 26 ‘different types’ was in an earlier part and that the question of where the aircraft were made came much later – and may just have concerned BOAC’s overseas services. Therefore, the bits of information that are difficult to reconcile could have come from different sources or different respondents, using different criteria and answering different questions asked at different times.

    If, for example, the ’26’ figure referred to all the different aircraft types on BOAC’s books, not just those employed on overseas passenger, mail or cargo services, then several British aircraft types could be added. BOAC inherited a range of aircraft from its predecessor airlines. You mention the Atalantas and the Ensigns but, as you are aware, there were several others – the Albatross, Flamingo and Dragon Rapide come to mind and there were probably others. I also seem to recall that BOAC used Oxfords for training purposes and also evaluated other aircraft for its possible use. Was the Albermarle one of these or is my memory playing tricks? Perhaps there were several of these ‘one-offs’ on BOAC’s books.

    I’m not even sure how ‘aircraft type’ was defined. How many ‘aircraft types’ are covered by the phrase ‘Short flying boats’ for example? Even though the S.23, S.30 and S.33 were Empire flying boats (C-class), they might have counted as three types, as they had different power plants and different all-up weights. Around the time the article was written, Shorts were converting Sunderland Mk.IIIs for BOAC use and there were also the S.26 G-class flying boats (Golden Hind, Fleece and Horn). I don’t know but perhaps (and I stress perhaps), ‘Short flying boats’ could encompass five different aircraft types.

    And BOAC had aircraft all around the world, not just in Britain, and some of those might be called unusual. Weren’t there some captured aircraft based in Cairo that BOAC used for ‘communication’ and similar purposes, for example?

    Anyway, it is probably more complicated than the article suggests. Perhaps someone could help clarify the statements in the article.

    In the meantime, I checked I had transcribed the figures correctly from the article and took the opportunity to copy the relevant sections, which are attached.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #795110
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    Some of my other activities include trawling newspaper archives and the following comes from a British newspaper report in February 1943 concerning some discussions in the House of Lords about the activities of BOAC in the 1942 calendar year: I hope it may be of some interest to others.

    OVERALL STATS:

    BOAC flew some 10,000,000 miles in 1942, providing a capacity of some 21,600,000 ton-miles (1941: 12,587,294 ton-miles) and operated 26 ‘different types’, logging 67,250 hours in the air and carrying some 43,000 passengers, 950 tons of mail and 2,250 tons of cargo. This was approx 91,000,000 passenger-miles.

    NORTH ATLANTIC SERVICES

    Since taking over the North Atlantic ferry service in 1941, BOAC had made 217 eastward and 218 westward flights. A footnote says the primary objective of the service is to take delivery pilots and crews back to North America but the eastbound services are used for “official passengers and freight”.

    BOEING 314A SERVICES

    Three services every 30 days are in operation between Baltimore and the U.K.

    OTHER SERVICES

    Services between the UK and, respectively, Durban, Calcutta, and Montreal are noted, plus several services within the Middle East and Africa. A new service to Madagascar is mentioned. The rest of BOAC’s services are subject to security considerations.

    AIRCRAFT TYPES

    I’m not sure what the reported 26 ‘different types‘ are but the following is the only mention of aircraft types other than the “Boeing 314A Clipper flying boats” .

    Short flying boats, converted Armstrong-Whitworth Whitleys and Vickers-Armstrongs (sic) Wellingtons are the only British aircraft at present in service, the rest being American-built ‘planes“.

    The mention of the BOAC Wellingtons was quite a surprise when i read it, because i thought this a little-known use of the type, but perhaps the Government was keen to ‘maximise’ the use of British aircraft by BOAC to the public..

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #797201
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    Terrific photo, Duggy.

    It seems that AL522 served with various RAF units, the last being 511 Squadron, before being allocated to BOAC in July 1944. It operated on the Atlantic ferry service from March 1945 to June 1946, which fits well with the date ascribed to the photograph.

    I’m not quite sure why it would visit an RCAF training school, though most of its ‘graduates’ apparently went on to join Coastal Command, so experience of a Liberator might have been useful. Alternatively, perhaps AL522 was diverted to Summerside because of bad weather elsewhere. Does the source of the photograph clarify this in any way, Duggy?

    AL522 later became G-AHYD, but was used for spares before being restored and, in September 1947, Scottish Aviation began to convert it for in-flght refuelling trials. BOAC was anxious to emulate BSAA in this regard. These trials took place between February and May 1948. BOAC had also acquired some TCA Lancastrians or Lancasters for this purpose. I imagine that the literature on the subject will provide more details as to where these trials took place. Flight Refuelling Limited didn’t move to Tarrant Rushton until June 1948.

    The attached photograph shows G-AHYD undertaking in-flight refuelling trials by night.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #799247
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    Can anyone help with the matter of the “A.I.D. requirements?

    What are they?

    …and …

    Would meeting these requirements result in any outward change to the aircraft?

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #799616
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    Oughton says that AL614 was taken on charge at Dorval on 8 May 1942 and used for a couple months by Ferry Command’s Communication Squadron. On 31 August 1942, it was allocated to BOAC for the Return Ferry Service and its first eastbound flight was on 1 September 1942. Berry’s research says it arrived at Prestwick from Gander on 2 September 1942. The latter’s research shows multiple Atlantic crossings, plus a few flights elsewhere.

    One incident is noted in this period, though the accounts differ.

    Oughton says of AL614: “burst tyre on take-off Prestwick for Gander 24.8.43 and belly-landed at Ayr”. Berry says: “Aug 23/24 Liberator Gander – Ayr. Belly-landed Pwk. RFS. AL614″, suggesting it left Gander on 23 August en route for the UK, where it crashed. From other reports, what appears to have happened is this. AL614, returning from Dorval en route to Prestwick, stopped off at Gander. As it took off from there, around 8.00 in the evening of 23 August, a tyre burst and the undercarriage was damaged. It continued its journey and belly-landed at Heathfield (Ayr) around 8.30 on the morning of 24 August 1943.

    Oughton goes on to say that, on 7 September 1943, AL614 went for repair to Scottish Aviation Limited. It was moved from Heathfield to Prestwick late on the morning of that day. As well as the repairs, it apparently had modifications to meet ‘A.I.D. requirements’. I’m not sure what those are but perhaps it explains the ‘moustache’ noted by Adrian in the preceding Post. Oughton says it was returned to BOAC at Prestwick on 16 November 1943. To add to that, there was a radio check on 15 November, a ‘nose wheel shimmy damper’ problem on 16 November, a further radio check on 17 November and, it would seem, a test flight on 18 November.

    Oughton says AL614 was back in service westbound on 19 November 1943. Berry’s research shows it left Prestwick on 19 November 1943 bound for Gander. It left very early that day, around one in the morning, and stopped off at Gander, arriving at Dorval in the early evening. It remained at Montreal until almost the end of December 1943, during which period the cabin was modified in some way. It then left Montreal on 29 December 1943 for Gander, where it stayed for more than a day, awaiting an ‘anti-air pump’ and its ‘load’. It got back to Prestwick on Hogmanay (31 December).

    Now for a bit of speculation on my part. My suggestion is (with no basis in fact) that the photograph of AL614 in Post #129 (repeated below) was taken by SAL in mid-November 1943, just prior to their returning the aircraft to BOAC.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #799872
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    From what I can gather, Peter Berry’s research indicated that the call-sign ‘OLZN’ was used between December 1944 [see EDIT note] and February 1946. Earlier than this, AL614 was recorded.

    EDIT: I think I have misread the dating and December 1944 was actually December 1945

    Do we know when ‘warpaint’ gave way to bare metal on the RFS?

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #799904
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    I think you may very well be right, Adrian. I attach two images:

    [1] a similar image to the one in Post #350 but slightly cropped and with the tonal range adjusted
    [2] a much tighter crop with the lighter tones unrealistically high

    It looks like the upper line of the code ends in “4” and the lower line looks more like an “N” now

    AL614 / OLZN looks like the right call to me. Any dissenters?

    And, of course, they could indeed be different bare-metal Liberators in the two photographs. That raises the question of how close in time the two photographs were taken. Apart from the elusive bare-metal Liberators, the only changes I’ve found are in the positions of the people and the ‘disappearance’ of one lorry.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #800078
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    The image from the WIX Forum that longshot posted is so much clearer than the one I had scanned from a book I had a go at counting the number of aircraft shown.

    Excluding the B-17s first of all, I make it 25 aircraft: 1 Wellington, 1 C-54, 12 Daks, 5 Liberators, 5 Lancs and, in one of the Dak line-ups, a B-25, I think . [Forgive me if I’m wrong about the identifications – my spotting days are well past me now]

    Counting the B-17s is not easy but I got to 33 and I think there may be one or two others way back in the pack.

    Overall then, close to 60 aircraft are in this photograph, if not actually 60.

    And we know, if only from the aerial photograph of Prestwick (in Post # 349) that there may well be other aircraft in parts of the airfield not shown in the photo posted by longshot.

    If you care to attempt this for yourself, here is longshot‘s posting again, with the tones lightened and showing just the aircraft.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #800108
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    If that’s ‘ZM’ on the nose, then it would seem that it is AL529, which had ‘OLZM’ as its call-sign.

    The photograph attached shows AL529/ZM at Dorval and the code letters on the nose read ’29’ and ‘ZM’. The Lib in the photo above (Post # 350) seems to have ‘ZM’ on the nose but I’m not sure that it is ’29’ above the ‘ZM’.

    Also, I can’t see a BOAC ‘Speedbird’ logo on its fuselage. This is a lesser concern, if intriguing, but the photos is not too clear on this, anyway..

    Comments, anyone?

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #800132
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    And here’s the bare-metal Lib in close-up. Are those code letters on the nose?

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #800152
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    This aerial view was obviously taken on a different day but I have marked the spot where (more or less) where the photographer was positioned to take the above two shots.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #800166
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    Here are the two previous photographs together:

    EDIT: I hadn’t realised, until I looked at the image this morning, that it looks like a ‘Spot The Difference’ competition – but, In terms of the aircraft, only the bare-metal Liberator has changed, I think.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #800171
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    Just excellent.

    I scanned this from a book. It was taken on the same day but the bare-metal Lib has moved nearer the camera. Perhaps (just perhaps) it would be possible to read its serial number on the original photograph.

    in reply to: BOAC Liberator II Landing At Prestwick #801145
    ianwoodward9
    Participant

    A TWA newspaper advert from late 1940:-

Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 806 total)