2. Sounds like less ice, not more – and the NW passage is through Canadian waters. Not really our business.

I think that is the idea, that the Russians will be using the Arctic region more, but as far as i’m concerned, it’s not our problem or business. The US, Canada and the Scandanavians are the ones with the problems.

“…a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing…..” how very Nevile of you both.

1) Speaking as a person with some knowledge of this area, it will mean plenty more ice, broken pack ice, icebergs etc That means shipping is more likely to meet ice randomly, very dangerous.

2) So British shipping and business interests will not be involved in any enterprises north and south of the respective polar circles? May as well apply the same arguement to the Indian Ocean and The Med….so no point having an RN now.

The Arctic/Antarctic issues are going to be the next big game in town and it would seem a shame if we aren’t their to play our part.

Thetis, who knew it would be editted out?

We shouldn’t fall into the trap of confusing size with cost; a mistake made in previous ship orders such as the type 42s and type 22s. Taking a leaf out of the US Spruance class, I think we should be looking at ordering ships comparable in size to the T45s (with as much commonality as possible in terms of hull design and equipment eg propulsion) whilst tailoring the weapon and sensor fit to suit the mission. Keep the sylver silos and the main gun and adapt the silos to launch whatever is required for the mission. Again, commonality of systems will help keep costs down.

Wise words. The production line is already open. At the very least another 4 T45s that could be used to replace the T22s…use the spare accomodation built for RM etc could be modified to house the flag accomodation and command facilities.

Having had the weekend sans internet to chew it over there was one obvious problem with the Aw149 that we have over looked. It doesn’t fold up…

I know Puma (and the first batch Merlin) doesn’t but if we are buying a new helicopter surely we should buy one that can at least fold up into a carrier hanger and perhaps one that folds nicely into the hanger of a frigate would be desirable….

Canada also had a somewhat odd purchase of the Merlin with the program being scrapped upon the election of a new government only to be reintroduced again by said government after having paid all the cancellation fees.

I’m not suggesting that the Merlin didn’t have problems in its early life but do bear in mind that Canadian articles may well have a political leaning as a reason to make it seem worse than it was.

No jokes! The Merlin issue was such a political hot potato in Ottawa when I worked there a decade ago. PM Cretin (for he was) had cancelled the big 50 aircraft ASW/SAR order and then watched as Sea Kings and Vouyagers fell out of the sky, the stories cooked up about better value for money of cancelling original Merlin the ordering Cormorant would have made Alistair Cambells head spin.

That genuinely made me burst out laughing, even though it no laughing matter. Yeh i’m pretty sure the Puma does have an abysmal safety record in RAF service (Friend is an ex-Puma pilot). Another plus point in replacing it rather than extending it’s life.

Sorry, gallows humour at the end of a long day.

Both the AW149 and Merlin both have more plus points than the UH60M really. They would both be made in Yeovil, the merlin is proven and common with much of the current fleet and the AW149 promises to be pretty great without much risk. There isn’t much UH60M can bring to beat that. They may be cheaper on the surface but if the money is all going to the Americans it may not be the best value for money for the British (industrial benefits, British workforce, blah blah blah). That is of course unless they could be kit assembled, but even then I wouldn’t make it the frontrunner.

I think the Merlin/Wildcat/Aw149 buying combination makes the best sense. Two of them have had the development costs all but paid for and are in production while the third is just a bigger 139. If all three built at Yeovil it could be a real boom time at westland.

Worst safety record in the RAF isn’t it? I know at least one pilot who’s crashed one.

Funnily enough that hadn’t crossed my mind…I was thinking of the submarine service Bond Helicopters seems to be running with its new Super Pumas.

Bin C2, beef up C3 a little, buy more T45…?