Interested to know that photos of incidents do exist at Kew, though. Don’t suppose you saw any Whirlwinds on moorland, did you?
Not so far, but I’ll keep an eye out!
I’d need to know more about the workings of the MU’s, the CRU, CRO’s, MPRD and 43 Group. I am working on that!
I agree it would make a good book, combining that under-represented aspect of the war effort with the ‘human interest’ of Jim’s diaries. I’ll get on to it when I’ve got my 1930’s aerodynamic design coffee table book out of the way!
I know that feeling. But from spending too much time at Kew, I know there would be good photographic coverage of many of these mishaps, let alone the usual RAFM, FAAM etc archives for other photos and log books etc.
Some of the notes were typed up in 1945 by Jim Wilson, from his own handwritten diary of the time – some wrong digits may have crept in there. I think the next job, the Hart, has the wrong serial too – but after that they seem accurate. The handwritten version that survives only goes back to June 41. Still, there is so much detail in the narrative I think Jim can be forgiven for a couple of typos.
Highlights for me are the bomber wheel caught up on a mine (His assistant saying he’d work with Jim on it, but only if Jim would tell head office he’d volunteered, and the bomb-disposal chap turning up to find they already had it swinging about in a sling, still armed), and the ‘hush-hush’ job picking up a Spitfire PR1A (which he called a ‘Blue Peter’ Spitfire).
These notes would be a very good basis for a very interesting book. Ever thought of it?
Why would anyone get involved?
The histories of all of the aircraft concerned are well known, and easily accessible. There are marque experts who can give chapter and verse.
It only becomes an issue if the aircraft is deliberately misrepresented, such as the case with the ‘Old number 1’ Bentley.
For a museum, it’s important to know the provenance of the artefact. For operators, it’s important to know that the aircraft is airworthy.
I’m sure the Bugatti Owners Club put forth similar arguments: it doesn’t change what has occurred, irrespective of anyone’s arguments.
I do wonder why some folks are getting a bit precious about this though: we’re not talking about any change in operations after all…
I suggest a Google of ‘DVLA’ and ‘Bugatti 35’ just in case anyone is naïve enough to think there is no difference between a replica Spitfire and one with genuine provenance.
It matters not what we the enthusiasts think (whether poacher or gamekeeper): if government organizations get involved then there won’t be recourse for discussion. I would suggest that it’s only a matter of time before someone raises the question.
I’ve no idea how the Bugatti issue became one for the DVLA, but we are talking about fundamentally similar machines (car vs aircraft), of similar age and of similar monetary value.
EDIT: a look here proved strangely prescient, when compared to George’s original post: note the proposed categories:
Option 1 – Rebuilt Vehicles
Rebuilt Vehicles: there’s no mention on line as to whether this applies to classic, vintage or modern cars (although all three definitions can be open to interpretation) it does say however a rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:
•The original unmodified chassis or body-shell
•A new chassis or monocoque body-shell of the “same specification” as the original
You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle on the following list:
•Suspension (front and Back)
•Steering assembly
•Axles (both)
•Transmission
•Engine
Option 2 – Radically altered vehicles
Radically altered vehicles: these are vehicles (once again no classification) that have been altered from their original specification, but aren’t kit conversions.
Keeping the original registration number is based on a point system. The more original the vehicle the higher you score deeming your vehicle acceptable to maintain its age related plate. However you must have the original or new unmodified chassis and monocoque body-shell. 8 points or more allows you to keep your original plate.Take a look at the points system.
•Chassis, monocoque body shell original or new and unmodified – 5 points
•Suspension (front and back) original – 2 points
•Axles (both) original – 2 points
•Transmission original – 2 points
•Steering assembly original – 2 points
•Engine original – 1 point
Option 3- Reconstructed Classic Vehicles
Reconstructed classic vehicles: potentially with the DVLA changes to classic cars they could only allocate an age-related plate if the vehicle meets the criteria below
•Built from genuine period components from more than one vehicle, all over 25 years old and of the same specification as the original vehicle
•A true reflection of the marquee
•Has been inspected by the appropriate vehicle owners’ club for the vehicle type (marque) and confirmed in writing it has been inspected, is a true reflection of the marque and comprises of genuine period components all over 25 years old
•Disclose manufacturer dates for all major components
Instead, why not appreciate the aircraft kept in flyable condition? Doesn’t matter how much if it is original, as long as it feels original and has a provenance one can count on…
Provenance: that’s the key. Many of the replicas mentioned above have no provenance other than a tenuous link with the machines they purport to be. In the cases you mention, there won’t be the wreckage of the original hidden somewhere (or at worst, scrapped), while a replica meanwhile pretends to be the original.
The Murphy’s Broom phenomenon is well understood in historic motorsport, where provenance is the key. If it works there, I see no reason why it should not work in historic avaition.
Sad to hear. But it was good while it lasted.
So now we’ve lost this and the F-86A, does anything now qualify as the UK’s oldest airworthy jet?
Lovely shot of a lovely machine. Engine not quite round enough for my liking however…:eagerness:
Two Canberras? I was there a week or so ago and the PR.9 was parked among a load of 747s on the north (ish) side.
What’s the other one?
Seriously though I think the idea would be of worth – like the FIA passports used in historic motorsports, where it is far easier to spot the recreation from the genuine. It would affect the resale prices of replicas, but would at least record the provenance of historic machines.
I know this is a Pandora’s Box, but for many years I have been dumbfounded that supposedly “respectable” aircraft restorers are able to recover historic artefacts for the sole purpose of making a replica of the same and then pass it off as some sort of ‘restoration’.
We’ve already been educated in better ways regarding our historic buildings but seem to be a long way off protecting our aviation heritage in the same way. It’s the elephant in the room: we all know it goes on, but the mainstream aviation press seems unprepared to mention it and genuine aviation historians seem powerless to stop it.
So yes, I really do hope it has mileage because it would be lovely to go to a historic aircraft display, knowing whether I’m looking at Category A, or (more likely) Category E. Both have their place, but recognition of Category E might just avoid this continued plundering of our shared heritage.
There seems to be one very important category missing.
An aircraft that has been salvaged and restored to fly using little or no original components.
That’s Category E. Many of those around.
I’m sure someone responded to this already: someone who knew her and was going to ask the lady in question?
Or has that thread been removed?
It’s a thing of beauty and in markings wholly appropriate. I hope they don’t restore but just conserve what’s there.
No engine (only cold nozzles installed); and very little in the way of systems.
The new museum is looking to be an interesting attraction and the restoration of the 3-bay WW1 hangar to be applauded.
Some from today: ZD610 lifted by Chinook ZD575, which makes them around the same age I guess…
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