Laurie,
thanks for that piece of information!
To clarify:
The answer was a Griffon 58 (ex-Shackleton of course) with an original blower.
Original to the Griffon 58 or to the Griffon 88?
Christer
Have you actually tried to fly the Wright Flyer in MicroSoft Flight Sim 2004.
No, Turbo_NZ, I haven´t. I don´t think flight simulaters are that accurate …… 😀 …… so, in this case I definitely agree with James!
A few years ago, a friend in our gliding club twisted my arm and forced me down in front of his computer. It was the first and only time so far I´ve ever flown a desktop.
He put me in a Mustang to fight a Me-262. It took me a minute or so to learn how to fly the Mustang and another few minutes to shoot down the Me-262. The flight sim was flying the Me-262 and it was pretty predictable. It would probably be more fun to fly against another fighter, flown by another person on another computer.
Maybe some day …… :rolleyes: ……
Christer
James,
I know what You mean!
However, if the Wright Brothers had a computer and a programme (see, I caught the correct spelling) to simulate how the Flyer would behave, would they dare strapping themselves into it?
Christer
GI GO. Garbage in = garbage out. What you can get out of a computer is limited by what you put in – which is’t ‘everything’ ever. Please remember this.
To create/design a computer simulation, a lot of input data AND known output data corresponding to the same are needed. Then the “bit in the middle” can be created/designed. If new input data is given, then the “bit in the middle” can calculate/predict the output data.
Any good computer model (simulation) is based on empirical test data and actually gets pretty accurate.
Christer,
who will remember that lousy science put into a computer is lousy science en masse!
Well, those were the good old days when NOT everything could be simulated in a computer program …… 😉 …… and the test pilots job was often boring iterations of the same task. But then at other times, their job could be unnecessarily exciting!
Christer
About discrepancies in performance figures, small changes to the propeller in terms of its condition and the airframe as a whole can produce different performance figures.
In the early stages of testing, Rolls-Royce often experimented with different supercharger gearing in MS and FS which produce differences in performance, especially at which altitude the maximum speed was reached.
At full throttle, the maximum Indicated Airspeed is approximately the same within a certain range of altitude and finding the “sweet spot”, by adjusting the gearing to the altitude just before IAS starts to drop, then the IAS translates into the highest True Airspeed. Then, MS is maintained until TAS drops and the gear change to FS occurs.
The unknown factor that prompted these experiments was ram air pressure due to actual speed and air density.
One example is the Mk.XIV, which is quoted to attain 439 mph at 24,500 ft from one source and 446 mph at 25,400 ft from another and 448 mph at 26,000 ft from a third. These figures are probably not from the same aircraft but indicate that there were differences as mentioned above, probably in supercharger gearing.
The maximum speed is attained in FS gear. At lower altitudes, the differences in MS gear may be even bigger since different gear change aneroids could be fitted to suit operational needs. As I´ve understood it, adapting engine performance by altering the gear change altitude was not uncommon for the Mk.XIX recce missons.
Christer
The Mk.24 had 24 volt electrics, rear fuselage fuel tanks (2×33 gals), short barrelled Hispanos and zero length rocket launchers, all of which the Mk.22 didn´t.
Standard engine for both was the Griffon 61 and as an alternative the Griffon 64 which was basically a 61 with 25 lb/sqin boost.
Some Mk.22’s were tested with the Griffon 85 (18 lb/sqin boost and contra props) but only one Mk.24 (PK684).
The initial production batch of the Mk.47 was fitted with the Griffon 87 but the later batches were fitted with the Griffon 88 which is the same but a Rolls-Royce injection pump substituted the injection carburetor.
Max speed of the Mk.24 was 454 mph at 26,000 ft compared to the prototype Mk.47 for which 432.5 mph at 24,300 ft was recorded.
A lot of tests and trials were made with different designs of the extended air intake and the reduced performance was thought to be due to lower efficiency of the new air intake and the large blade roots interfering with it.
For a Mk.46, used in the trials, these figures were recorded:
Max speed with a standard intake was 443 mph at 24,500 ft compared to 440.5 mph at 23,900 ft with a Mk.47 intake.
The 451 mph for the Mk.47, quoted by turbo_NZ, is not mentioned by Morgan/Shacklady in Spitfire – The History which is my reference.
Christer
You mean a beapher?
There was a Royal Australian Navy-scheme one, owned by Paul Morgan, and the very same one in which he died when it tipped onto its back on landing. I think that’s gone to somewhere like Sweden – someone’s bound to know better out there. Pretty sure it’s Europe, though.
It´s correct that this one was bought by a swede but I don´t think it´s in Sweden though, not even in Europe, since the plans for it is racing.
The owner’s name is Dan Borgström and below is a link to a swedish site where his team is introduced. Scroll down a bit and find Team Half Fast. I had another link, http://www.if1airracing.com/Planes/30.shtml but it seems to be dead.
Christer
Check Your inbox, I sent a PM two days ago!
Christer
For what it´s worth, I visit another vBulletin Version 2.3.2 board, Windows BBS and it has a data base much larger than Key Publishing Ltd Forums and to my knowledge, Windows BBS is very stable. I have never seen a crash but it can happen that it is accessible for a few minutes when the daily backup of the data base is created.
Christer
For what it´s worth, I visit another vBulletin Version 2.3.2 board, Windows BBS and it has a data base much larger than Key Publishing Ltd Forums and to my knowledge, Windows BBS is very stable. I have never seen a crash but it can happen that it is accessible for a few minutes when the daily backup of the data base is created.
Christer
Mike,
I wrote that from memory but below I qoute from the first edition of The Spitfire Story by Alfred Price:
Provided the Lightning did not drop its speed too much and let itself be drawn into a turning fight with its more agile opponent, a piston-engined fighter stood little chance in such an encounter. The most effective attack by the Lightning was in a high speed climb from below its opponent, where there was a good chance it could get into a missile-firing position without being seen.
It does not mention for how long …… 😉 ……
Christer
I read somewhere that the best tactics for the Lightning would be to cruise at low altitudes and when an “oldie” was spotted, to make an almost vertical climb to attack. In this way the Ligtning would remain undetected, obscured by the wing of the “oldie”.
If the “oldie” spotted the Lightning and started manouevering, then the job would become much more difficult for the Lightning pilot.
Christer
Hello Ant!
The BGA (British Glider Association) are already at loggerheads with them, ……
Well, I believe that EASA is something to keep ones eyes on.
The Swedish Soaring Federation too has “taken up the glove” and it actually enjoys the support of the Swedish Aviation Safety Authority!
We have a well functioning maintenance organization based on volunteers, educated and trained by the SSF, doing the job for almost no financial compensation. EASA wants to regulate that all maintenance must be carried out by licenced companies who know absolutely nothing about gliders and even less about non-profit organizations …… 😡 …… that make gliding/soaring affordable to more people than otherwise.
I think that the national gliding/soaring organizations will join forces through the European Gliding Union and I hope that the “warbird community” will find a way to join forces because I believe that they need to.
Regards,
Christer