GeforceTracksuit bottom? Isn’t that what lazy men wear all the time. It’s very comfortable, sitting in your sofa drinking beer.
No for god’s sake, don’t wear a suit the first day on your work. Go casual. You don’t want your colleagues to start laughing from the beginning, do you? And if you do wear a tie, make sure it’s classy. No mickey mouse/Homer Simpson ties or even worse, the “easy ties”. Makes you look a complete moron.
If you have guts, I’d wear bermuda-shorts, sliffers and a hawai-skirt on the first day of work. Than go to the boss’ secretary and ask, baby, I have an appointement? … Than make me one.”
GeforceFunny when people say this, that we’re NOW talking multilateral. You guys seem to forget all the trouble Bush went through to GET the UN involved. Regardless weather you agree with US or not, Bush did try to get the UN involved.
Remember why the inspectors were back in Iraq? Bush went to the UN.
Remember when he went and spoke a SECOND time to the UN, to try to get the rest of it on our side?We did NOT go to war alone on purpose–we went without UN approval because the UN wouldn’t go, NOT because we didn’t want it.
At EVERY step we had wanted all the help we could get. Certain things we were not going to “hand over tothe UN” for reasons of security. (knowing that the UN buggs out after the first bombing is one reason), ensuring that certain pivitol things actually get done, is another.
The fact is that we had wanted international help from the beginning, and we wnat it now. It was the UN that didn’t want to be in on it, and allowing the international community “in on it” at this point in the game is not as simple as letting them in.
No, Bush wanted to have the UN-involved but would attack without if necessairy. He said that from the beginning. Ofcourse he wanted the UN-involved, because he needed the peacekeepers once the war was over. I agree with you that the UN however should not be the only body representing the world community. As long as the UN represents the opinion of some larger states and not their people it can’t be seen as the one and only ‘truth’. Not going to the UN therefor was more a political mistake than an ethical one I think.
Pro-active defense? Isn’t that offense?
GeforceI mean Ireland, sorry.
Geforce1. Barbara Tuchman is not an opinion. She’s not some leftist professor from an unknown university in California, publishing a book on the history of Marihuana. “The Proud Tower” is a book written in the 50’s, it’s undoubtly the best historical book on the last decades before WWI. She’s from Harvard, so I don’t think what she wrote is just another ‘opinion’. Wordlwide she’s regarded as one of the top historians. The US was imperialist in the 1890’s. What’s so shocking about that? One detail: they called it expansionism.
“The US was always interested in taking any land that lay next to its current borders; that’s how the US moved west to the Pacific. Enthusiasts in the US at various times talked aboutacquiring Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central America. During the Mexican-American War c. 1846-48, some Americans discussed the idea of all of the Western Hemisphere coming under the “progressive” and “civilized” control of Anglo-Saxon Americans. But until 1898, the US’s land grabs were in sparsely settled areas, where objecting Indians and Spanish were overwhelmed. And after 1898, when the US held the Philippines, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico, there was never an intent for a wave of white immigrants to go out and settle those places. The ideology of US imperialism was to acquire naval bases, not an outlet for a growing population.”
2. Taleban are coming back, because they were the ones who killed those doctors. They may not become part of the legitimate government but what does that change for the people on the ground? They were terrorists before 9/11 and they still are. The goal of the Afghanistan campaign was not a change of gov’t, it was rooting out terrorism, and so far, that has not been succesful.
3. How can you say that Sauron. Terrorism has ALWAYS been a deciding factor in war. In fact, I knew few wars which have only been fought conventionally. Northern Ireland gained independence for example, not only through terrorism, but it was a deciding factor. There are some anaylists claiming terrorism will be the war of the 21th century. Terrorism has always been the first form of war, war between national states and organised armies is quite new.
4. Those nations individually not, but the coalition as a whole is falling apart. And that’s why the US is thinking multilateral again. At a certain point, Rumsfeld even wanted to attack Iraq without the British. (remember that?) Luckily for the world AND America these days are over.
GeforceThe US never imperialistic? I suggest you read Barbara Tuchman’s book “the proud tower”. All western powers were imperialist at the end of the 19th century. You honestly don’t believe the United States went to war with Spain to liberate the Cubans did you? Some senators even wanted a war with the UK over Venezuela. (Mahan who wrote the book “the influence of sea power”). The US was not worse than Belgium for example (in many ways they (US) treated the local population more humane), but the theory behind it is the same.
And even if the US did not have a colonial empire like the British, it did expand a lot in the 19th century, not always in “humane” ways. Imperialism goes way beyond the Marxist definition though. The Portuguese and the Dutch in the 17th century were not imperialist because they didn’t want to take over whole countries/land, but they did want to controll it, thus creating military bases and trade posts. But it’s not a bad thing, again, because the American bases may have prevented a third world war. The most imperialistic era under the Romans (Pax August) also meant two centuries of peace.
The Canadian soldiers in Europe. I don’t find this a shame to be honest. Don’t mistake, it’s very nobel of Canada to send peace-keepers but making peace is the responsability of the world and not just of the neighbouring countries. Europe sends peacekeepers to Africa as well. I even think at a certain point there were soldiers from the United Arab Emirates in Kosovo.
As for Afghanistan. The country is still in deep problems. This is not the US’s fault, but it is naive to think the US could change this. Afghanistan was better for a few months when US soldiers were in the country, but now, this country is going back to the Taleban-era. Last month, 3 doctors from Doctors without frontiers were kidnapped and killed there. Again, this is not the US’s mistake. But it would be incorrect to say everything is better right now, as it is not, nor see I see any chance of improvement in the near future.
Terrorists never won a war? Explain to me please. They have other methods, but they win all the time. Every time a country pulls back its troops from Iraq terrorism has won. Terrorists have other goals than national states. In fact, their only goal is to create terror and make people afraid. Even if they lose, they win.
I can only tell what my brother tells me. He travelled a few times to the US the past year and said he was treated like a criminal.
With non-military actions I don’t mean police actions. I mean a change in international politics. This is however going on, as Powell and others understand that going solo is not a good option.
GeforceNobody is asking Mr. Bush to become new best friends with Castro. In fact, the only reason why Mr. Castro is in power is thanks to US sanctions. Otherwise, the Cuban people would rapidly understand Mr. Castro is betraying them, but now he has a reason to remain dictator. There’s no need for political ties between the US and this Cuban regime. But economic sanctions and now social, this hurts the people the most and gives Castro more credits to remain the evil dictator.
GeforceI have no respect for Castro at all and I believe he is an embarrasement to all of Latin America. That is not to say that the US is the good guy or to say that all communists are bad. I respect anyone who stand by their beliefs as long as their sincere about carrying them out. But Castro mouths off about how the US is the oppressor and how he is fighting a struggle of liberation against them and then the next moment holds his hat out and begs US bussinessmen to do trade with him. In my eyes that makes him a cheap punk, and if people want to make him out to be some kind of brave voice of the people, fine. Alls I know is that I look to different places in Latin America other than Cuba to elevate social and economic development. I know what its like to be poor and I even know what its like to be oppressed and I have had to pay a high price to free myself from situations where my rights are being violated. I can tell you thugs are always thugs no matter how much you dress them up and glamourize them. And Castro my friends, is a thug.
Castro is an opportunist thug indeed. But the issue here Brad was does that give one the right to prevent people from seeing their relatives?
GeforceGeforce
Yes it’s obvious! Europe has no military option even when it is justified. It can’t take a firm stand on anything therefore it simply takes the rather delusionary view that talk will solve all it’s problems. That fact also aids French and German ambitions to control the E.U
True, I’m the first to admit this. It’s sad that Al-Quaida threatens us but we can not respond if necessairy. However, we shouldn’t become xenophobic as well.
Yes, the U.S. has the military option to use when appropriate. An while you may not like it, many European governments support U.S. actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. Most had no problem geting U.S. military help in the Balkans either.
You know very well, that the U.S. is involved in non military actions against terrrorism around the world so why suggest that it is not?
Military and non-military actions go hand in hand. The war in Afghanistan may have been necessairy (speaking from a western point of view), god knows it was NOT succesfull. And what are the non-military actions? Creating paranoia on airfields so people are actually afraid to travel to the USA?
It’s also obvious why the U.S. is under attack. It’s under attack by a violent form of Islam. Spare us the analysis. As long as the U.S. has a significant military force anywhere in the M-E, that will be reason enough for it to be targeted by Islamic terrorists. It isn’t any more complicated than that.
It is more complicated. I know the simplistic answer is always more popular (be it left or right wing), but the truth is always grey.
How do you know Europeans are more interested in foreign policy than Americans? Because the media says so?
I doubt if university students are any better informed about world issues than any other group. What are Americans naive about by the way?
University students as a whole not, but Americans living in Europe do have a better perspective on life HERE. (Same goes for Europeans travelling to the US)
Your imperialist examples are a little lame. Why didn’t you include Germany, Japan, South Korea and (gasp) Iraq?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: The Philippines and Cuba were imperialist actions taken by the US at the end of the 19th century. The US was not worse than any other European country, but it was not better too. Germany, SK are different issues. It was in respond to someone bringing up the UK’s imperialist history.
What would us Canadians need to know about your wars other than we seem to be obligated to help you fight them from time to time? 😉
Sauron
In Belgium we show all respect towards the soldiers from your country who died for a good cause. In fact, in my local village there’s a statue for “the unknown canadian soldier”. But Sauron, it’s not YOU who helped us today, we have to respect the people who died back then, but this is now the world today. For the same reason, we can’t be mad at the Germans forever. Your anwer shows of little respect too, it’s not the people of Belgium who caused that ware so we can be thankfull Canadians saved us. Too simplistic again. My great-grandfather died too you know. 😡
GeforceSaw the Texas Chain Saw massacre for the first time. Don’t know if I should rate it as good/bad. Probably because I’m from a generation which grew up with horror movies like the 6th sence and scream, this movie from the 70s has made me laugh occasionally. The scene in the slaughter house was priceless though: the actress wearing nothing but a T-shirt and suddenly, the maniac puts the shower on. :9
Best movie from the last 10 years: must be Amélie Poulin. I don’t know what it is but I bought the DVD and I can see the movie over and over again. The actress, though she’s not “hot”, she has an extra thing I can’t really describe. I think it’s a combination of Paris, the French language, her sweet smile and the story-line.
Worst movie: all aircraft-movies apart from Top Gun (which is a classic).
GeforceBrilliant. 😀 Didn’t teach history myself yet, but heard from my colleagues some suprising answers.
Who started the first cruisade – Jezus
How was Belgium founded? – Millions of years ago, France and Holland, two islands,
came so close to eachother, they collapsed and Belgium was created 😀
Personally I don’t find it a shame people don’t know anything about history. I do get upset when they pretend to know everything, so I have to be the arrogant ******* pointing out their mistakes. Therefor, I avoid political and historical discussions in the local pub 😎 A year ago, somebody nearly threw a glass at me because I was defending Bush. Drink beer and talk about the weather, fast cars, football and big boobs. :p
Geforce“the U.S. elected to use the military. Perhaps that was the moment when the support waned because it illustrated U.S. millitary power could do what Europe can no longer do. “
I think that’s quite obvious Sauron. Did you get this hot from the press or never heard about WWI, WWII and the cold war. But the fight against terrorism should go further than just military actions. The US should also try to analyse why people want to attack the US and change their foreign policy. I wouldn’t call that a sign of weekness, in fact, diplomacy is what maked the US big, not the military!
Geforce“
Too many people in Europe love the cheap sterotypes…and have a double standard when it comes to viewing the U.S. and its government….witness Grey Area’s comments.”
That is true. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Americans like Europe more than Europeans like America but because most US-citizens are totally NOT interrested in foreign policy. From some of my American friends in university I’ve heard this occasionally. Forgive me, but in some sence, Americans are more naive. This is not an insult, in fact, on the contrary, as I hate the cynism which is too popular in the European press. Another thing is Europe is secular. If our PM, even from a catholic party, would say something similar like “May god bless Belgium” it would be interpreted as provocative and he would have to step aside.
The “cheap stereotypes” are on both sides of the oceans. It’s not a bad thing, in fact. In Europe, we solve these problems through football! 🙂
GeforceAsk the pilots of the two Cessna Skymasters shot down by MiG 23 in international airspace a few years back They were part of an anti-Castro group of Cubans flying out of Florida partoling the sea for refugees. A MiG downed them. A MiG againbst two unarmed planes…not a fair fight
I believe the International Court ruled against Cuba in the matter and awarded damages to the widows.And I’m sure in the history of U.K. foreign policy it NEVER did anything shady…look at your imperialist history.
the U.S. did some underhanded things to fight communism…but it fought it and today, largely to U.S. actions (and money) Eastern Europe is free. The ends justify the means…sometimes. If not, how does the U.K. justify all the dead German civilians killed in Bomber Command raids against population centers?
Don’t want to be a pain in the ass, but the US also had an imperial history, like any western country. Filippines, Cuba, Hawai :rolleyes:
Eastern Europe is free, because Communism didn’t or couldn’t work. Western Europe, indeed, did not became communist thanks to American aid. But one has to see the difference between communism as a danger and Castro’s regime. Castro is an evil dictator, and I could understand that US would freeze Cuban Banc Accounts, but preventing people from seeing their family ?! In our constitution people have the right to go wherever they want.
Apart from that John, I would like to comment that the criteria for a bad leader goes beyond “democracy”. There are many bad democratic leaders out there.
I apologise for the Shrub-incident. I tried for once not to mention Mr. Bush in a thread Next time I’ll try a more direct approach.
GeforceMy great grandfather was a French soldier. He died from the consequences of a gas attack months after the end of the war, leaving behind two young girls. My grandmother worked in France for years before she could move to Belgium.
In Ieper (Ypres) there are thousands of graves of young British, ANZAC, Canadian soldiers. Each time I visit them it causes a strange feeling. Same for the German graves. Eventually these men didn’t chose too for this war, but sometimes, they don’t earn the respect they deserve.
GeforceYes, but what about “freedom”. I mean, if the US president is now telling people where they may travel and were not, isn’t that also … no not gonna say it.
Castro is a dictator, true. In fact though, he wasn’t exactly a communist, more a nationalist who wanted protection from the USSR-umbrella. Cuba is not a paradise, it’s a country with huge problems. However, it’s not a threat to the US and if Cubans want to get rid of Custro, they should at least take the initiative themselves. Comparing to other Latin-American nations though, Cuba scores high on the field of health care (suprise, better than the US) and education.
If I would travel to Cuba, I would indeed, as you pointed out so clearly, invest money in that country. But does the people of a country have to suffer from the regime they have. Apartheid didn’t stop people from travelling to South Africa, Tito wasn’t democratic as well, but Former Yugoslavia was a tourist attraction comparable to Spain or Greece.
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