Both Russia and Turkey have territory which is geographically within Europe. Both Russia and Turkey have been historically politically well-linked with Europe. The Turks were once the “Sick man of Europe”.

Read the above article on the project I posted here- BAE systems said UK companies will be involved in this project (European Fighter) one way or the other.

Also your comments about Turkey not being in the EU are irrelevant as Turkey is a EU Customs Union State. This allows it to participate in EU Defence projects e.g. such as the A-400M. Turkish companies were involved in development of certain engine parts and fuselage for the A-400M. But as Germany is involved in this project Turkey will stay clear and neither will it let BAE sustems transfer technology developed for the TF-X program to be used in the European fighter project.

!!!
Would the Turkish leadership soon outpace Mr Maduro when it comes to be cornered in an inextricable level of stupidity?
BAE should not have much concerns turning around the German owned EJ200 IP… A 20 years old tech for a firm at the forefront of engine design worldwide…
Once again, if the goal was ever to bar the Brits from doing some business with the Turks, the choice of strategy is probably ill-chosen with a final level of Turkish design that could be harder to match…

The US Government & allies exterminate Islamist threats abroad. Why are they so concerned about Turkey seizing the assets of an Islamist cult that is running a shadow Government in Turkey? Or is this particular Islamist cult working for US or German foreign policy objectives: the creation of a “moderate” Islamist caliphate to counter current caliphate Movements?

If the US/Europeans (Germans in particular) were so concerned about human rights why are they hosting the Egyptian Dictator who came to office through a coup? Why did France sell the Egyptian dictator two Mistral LHD’s? Why is the US/ Europeans dancing with Saudi Arabia?

The German’s are just punching way above their weight with this one- they are about to compromise Europe’s security by allowing Russia and China into their backyard. President Erdogan is more than willing to hand Turkey to the Russians in a bid to stick it to Europe.

Germany is upset that it has lost Turkey as a market because the Brits and Russians offer more. They are now seeking to strong arm British firms such as MTU (the subsidiary of Rolls-Royce) to prevent exports to Turkey. They are seeking to punish the UK for Brexit and Turkey for hitting the PKK hard. It will only backfire.

This was the prelude to the joint-venture between Kale and Rolls-Royce PLC

Rolls-Royce supports Turkey’s advancement in manufacturing technology
Tuesday, 6 October 2015
https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases/yr-2015/pr-06-10-2015-rr-supports-turkeys-advancement-in-manufacturing-technology.aspx

Rolls-Royce announced that it will be the first industrial lead and founder member of Turkey’s Advanced Manufacturing Technology Centre (AMTC), a project led by Turkey’s Ministry of Science, Industry & Technology and with the endorsements of the Ministries of Defence, Transportation and Energy.

The development plan for the AMTC was announced by the Government at a signing ceremony witnessed by the Turkish Minister of Science, Industry & Technology Fikri Isik, and UK Minister of Trade and Investment, Lord Maude of Horsham in Istanbul, with the participation of Vice President of The Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (TÜBİTAK) Prof. Mehmet Çelik and Director of Global Manufacturing for Rolls-Royce Dr. Hamid Mughal.

The AMTC will be designed to satisfy Turkey’s ambition to develop advanced core industrial capabilities around its national indigenous programs. Based on a collaborative cross-industry research working culture, this Centre of Excellence will be a public-private partnership focusing on manufacturing capability development and technology application development in Aerospace and will include more areas such as civil nuclear, marine and other industrial sectors over time. The AMTC will be seeking both International and Turkish companies to join as members in its new state-of-the-art facility.

Minister Fikri Isik said: “We are well positioned to grow our manufacturing industry in high value sectors, and we find it great to be able to use a proven working model and partner with experienced companies like Rolls-Royce. This Centre will bring great economic value as it will focus on key success factors of supplier capability development across our industry, including training and skills development, as well as technology innovation.”

Dr Mughal said: “We will work closely with our Turkish Government and industrial partners in the establishment of the AMTC. The AMTC will be an integral part of our strategy to establish a global network of Advanced Manufacturing Research Centres. These centres operate a novel model of academic and industrial collaboration that is designed to accelerate the transfer of innovation from early university research to successful exploitation in industry. We have no doubt therefore that this environment of cross-sector knowhow and team spirit will enable Turkey’s AMTC to develop itself into a leading regional centre of excellence in manufacturing technology.”

Patrick Regis, Rolls-Royce, Regional Executive – Turkey and Central Asia, remarked: “We are proud to be a founder member of the AMTC in Turkey. We have a well-established and mature advanced manufacturing model in the UK, Singapore and US, and have selected Turkey because of its high skill levels and manufacturing capabilities. Turkey is aiming to be within the top Aerospace and Defence nations by 2023, embarking on the development of a world-class manufacturing industry. We believe Rolls-Royce can be a partner to Turkey in this venture. This initiative will help shape the regional supply chain to meet the future needs of the aerospace industry in the region and we encourage other companies interested in being founder members to come forward.”

You have a blanket assumption that ToT means “all technology” That is not how these work. The firewall is to prevent RR, EJ, and Kale from exporting technology developed from the JV from running into restrictions. If you really believe that RR, and EJ are handing over IP to a competitor you aren’t thinking clearly. They are competing to aid in the development of a separate turbofan, giving technical support and training. Even that requires government approval.

You are falling into the trap of assuming something on the basis that the alternative would be unprecedented and impossible.

Well I have just shown you that this is not the case in this instance and that the British Government through Rolls-Royce is giving Turkey an indigenous engine development industry.

I know the deal in and out so I am not misinterpreting anything. I am just drawing your attention to information which counters your argument from open sources.

I don’t see what you don’t understand about the following statements:

We will use that to create capability through the transfer of data from the UK from Rolls-Royce

it is fully supported by the UK government and that’s really important. The government, the political connections, the bilateral relationship supports that cooperation because ultimately it allows that transfer of technology. The UK has stepped forward in a fairly unprecedented way on the engine as it has already granted us export licenses to allow us to do that, and that’s before a contract.

Bayar, did you read the article you posted and do you understand the meaning of the part about “double firewall”. This is a JV between RR and Kale. Rolls will not transfer IP that is proprietary. What is developed from the JV will be Turkey’s, exactly what data will be transferred isn’t defined at this early stage.

This is another example of jumping to conclusions. Please illustrate where in the document it specifically states that this JV will produce an engine technologically superior to the EJ200 and equivalent in power to the F119.

With respect you have misinterpreted the article. The reference to a “double firewall” is with respect to Rolls-Rolls vs Eurojet EJ-200. Rolls-Royce is entering the TF-X engine tender with the Eurojet EJ-200 on the one hand and then on the other hand with a Joint-Venture between Kale/JJ on a new co-developed engine. So as to prevent collusion between the Rolls Royce EJ-200 team and the Rolls-Royce/Kale team he is saying there will be a double-firewall to prevent information exchange between the 2 Rolls-Royce teams. See Page 3, First Column Last Paragraph.

You have misinterpreted this to mean that there is an information barrier between Rolls-Royce and Kale (Turkey).

You would also note that the Rolls-Royce executive mentioned that RR has already obtained “export approval from the British Government” for the engine technology. See Page 3, end of Column 2 and 1st paragraph of column 3. It clearly states “technology transfer”.

For that bit of news, you just have to produce some Sources!?

Check the Turkish Aerospace thread- the article on the Rolls-Royce/ Kale partnership and the statements made by Rolls-Royce- See below