Oh how disappointing was that trailer. Where to begin. 8th Air Force markings on the 17s to start. Any chance anyone could get the markings right on any of those birds, Luftwaffe or USAAF? They were in Italy after all. High School basketball rah rah chant before the flight?

Oh and the dreaded they ‘flew up hill, both ways, in deep snow, without boots on’ Hollywood take on it all.

I sure hope the movie is better then the trailer.

To be clear, I am offering no criticism of the aeroplane; merely clarifying the terminology.

A ‘time capsule’ aircraft would be unchanged from the point it came out of service. This aircraft represents a service Spitfire at the time of the Battle of France as closely as can be determined at this point in time.

Bruce

As one of those who used “Time Capsule” in talking about this Spit. For me, climbing into a Spit, rebuilt to such exacting standards to the way it was in 1940, would be like going back in time.

Because I love Spits and know the differences, the attention to detail makes a difference. The one Spit I’ve been in was the B of B Flight Spit II. Sitting in that cockpit was also a step back in time. But I also knew I wanted the correct exhaust stacks, 3 bladed prop and flat sided canopy too 🙂

It’s a bit like seeing a P51D without the pilot armor plate. There’s just something missing. I don’t see anything missing on P9374. And to know it’s a bit of a Phoenix from that ashes, sure doesn’t hurt

Totally agree with Cees. That Spit is a time capsule whether it’s new bits, old bits or a combination of both.

Seems like there is always a contingent that would be happier if it had been left to turn to dust.

…and we know a lot more about Mk IX wing armament designations than we did in 2004.

Officially there is no such thing as a Mk IXb or a Mk IXc. They were just Mk IX.

When the .5 Browning was introduced the designation Mk IXe was used.

At that time all previous Mk IX build, with the .303 Brownings, were then referred as ‘Early Mk IX’ in official documentation.

Mark

One of my favorite threads of all time. Actually got MK12 to change his mind on something Spit related, or at least re-arrange his thinking 🙂

Photograph as promised, I hope it is of use and interest? The occasion was the opening of Leeming’s Historical Training Facility, history room, and a medal presentation ceremony on 3 June 2010. It shows the water tower, to put JT442 out of his misery although it may bring a tear or two to Firebex’s eyes!

Regards

David Thompson

Many thanks David.

I am sure Firebex had to grit his teeth to apply that code. 🙂

Mark

OK I surrender. What is that in the photo? A Spitfire I/Vb/IXb without the second chimney pot casting, and multiple exhaust stacks in the dreaded 1940-41-42-43 paint scheme of a 609 squadron Typhoon? 🙂

Just finished “A Fighter Pilot in Buchenwald” by Joe Moser. He was a 429th FS, 474th FG P38 Pilot shot down just prior to the liberation of Paris. He and 168 other Allied fliers were thrown on a train and sent to Buchenwald where they spent a couple of months until the Luftwaffe folks figured out where they were and got them moved to Stalag Luft III.

Just started “Fighter Pilot” by Lt. L.C. Beck. It was published in 1946 and was written while he was being hidden by the French Underground. He was ultimately captured by the Germans and was one of 2 Allied Fliers to die during that time in Buchenwald. His parents got the manuscript from the French people who did their best to help him.

You gents miss the point entirely, while providing the evidence for it.

Do you really want someone without any knowledge of this story, going to this film, and coming out spending the majority of their time talking about the dog’s name?

Who cares you say. Exactly right. Who cares. Keep the focus on the story of the aircrew, not focused on the name of Gibson’s dog. It is an absolutely trivial point, that taken out of context can totally distract from the point of the film, much as it has you gents doing, all bent out of shape over a dog’s name.

Maybe we should tell the story from the point of view of a child that died as a result of the raid. Maybe the film makers could graphically show the deaths of the civilians and livestock in all it’s horror. We’re wanting to avoid being PC right?

Ahh, but maybe this story is about the men who flew the raid and their bravery. Might be the film should focus on that?

i’m sorry,

but the dog was black and he got his name for that reason, this is 2011, it’s time we stopped all this PC nonsense, i can think of a lot of things the yanks say that offends us but we don’t winge about it:mad:

And the significance of the dog in the over all story is? Talk about making something out of nothing. As one of those Yanks, I can tell you that I was raised by my parents with the understanding that that particular word is about the most hateful word there is.

My youngest son is African American. It’s going to be tough enough explaining to him about my passion for WW2 aviation history. Imagine how pathetic it’s going to sound when I describe those ‘innocently racist’ days when words like the one in question were thrown out without any thought to what was behind them, because those folks didn’t matter.

At the ripe old age of three he loves propellers. He’s got a Red Tail Mustang hanging from his ceiling and has to spin the prop first thing after he gets up. Of course he’ll understand the story of those guys who had to put up with all that garbage just to prove they could fly. And he’ll understand the rest of it too. When I show him all the pictures I have of the Spitfire XII pilots I met, and he asks me why none of them were black, what should I tell him?

Funny how when my oldest son was growing up, those kinds of conversations weren’t part of the discussion much. It was easy to avoid because it wasn’t looking me in the face with wonder.

What’s even more pathetic about this discussion is that the dog has absolutely nothing to do with the Dambusters story other then that he belonged to Gibson and was killed that day. If the movie maker can tell the story and honer the men who sacrificed so much, who cares about the stupid dog.

Gibson should be rolling over in his grave, saddened that such a idiotic whine would somehow be the focus of a story that has nothing to do with his dog.

Name the aircrew who died that day on that raid without looking. If they mess that up, then you can complain. Forget the damn dog.