Toddington TedThere are plans to get a hangar over the Vulcan, but for now, restoration work is focussing on repairing corrosion and a repaint to keep out the weather. There are big changes coming to the museum fingers crossed, so hopefully a hangar will be part of those plans.
That is great news and I really do hope that it can be done. It would be a shame for this mighty aircraft to have survived so long and all the hard work that has no doubt been expended on it only for it to be damaged for want of a “roof”.
Toddington TedImpressive photographs, thanks for posting them. I guess this shows why (in my somewhat harsh opinion) that aircraft in the UK that are not going to fly in the next few hours should be in a hangar protected from the elements. It is a shame to see this aircraft stuck outside (as it is with all the ones I see stuck outside when I visit air museums). Unless they have the constant attention of an army of volunteers then I suppose there’s nothing else but to watch them being damaged by the good old British weather and gently rot away to join their long lost companions in the metal recycler (and if I could volunteer to help I would, believe me). Large aircraft like this are, I believe, a huge undertaking for museums unless they are hangared or, like the examples still outside at Newark, regularly maintained. Even then, the only long term answer is to get them under cover – not quite so difficult with small airframes but Vulcans? Begs the question I suppose that such airframes are long-term “albatrosses” and should not have been taken on by museums that could not preserve them under secure, covered accommodation but of course, if people had not fought hard to save such artifacts then we would not have had a choice of whether to look after them at all. I guess the choice is ours and it takes dedication and lots of money. I can’t see Govt grants putting this poor old Vulcan in a warm safe hangar any time soon.
Toddington TedBizarre or what?
Well, we have some Jaguars here (at least 5) at the Defence College of Aeronautical Engineering (Cranwell) but our ac are maintained and ground run (for EngO training) by RAF personnel not SERCO. We recently took delivery of 2 “Raspberry Ripple” Jags from Boscombe. Last time I was at Cosford they seemed to have shedloads of Jags there but, of course, they are under a contract and our airframes are not. Hmm, interesting really since DCAE Cosford is our HQ! There is, of course, a surge in training at present due to the success of the 2008-2009 RAF recruiting scheme which now, of course, is being turned right down due to shortage of, well, money really! Things will get even more interesting when/if (choose option carefully depending on pension security) the Metrix Consortium takes over all military technical training in 2011 and moves us all to MOD St Athan by 2015. As for me, well I’m leaving the RAF within the next 2 months and I’ll let you make your own mind up as to whether I’m happy or sad to be doing so.
Toddington TedPapa Lima – this story is not as crazy as it sounds. I have commented before on this site about the next round of defense cuts that are ‘under development’ regardless of who wins the upcoming election, but no one seems to want to believe; real head in the sand stuff. My sources have never let me down yet. We can be sure that the RAF (and the RN) will be hit hard (the British Army will probably be untouched due to the current focus on the Afghan business). The likely scale of cuts for the RAF will be massive with wholesale civilianisation or contractorisation of support services on an unprecendented scale. Possible surviving ‘light blue’ manpower total IRO 32,000. Maybe even the Red Arrows will finally be retired (or at least reduced to 5 aircraft). My personal guess is that the BBMF aircraft will be sold or leased to a suitable private company with an undertaking to ‘appear’ at various events on behalf of UK MoD from time to time. And the big one: I predict the RAF will revert to being a component of the Army which will wipe out many staff officer posts and maybe even save a complete HQ. I assume that they won’t be so stupid as to re-invent the name Royal Flying Corps!! Captain Blackadder would be most amused!
Your sources may not have let you down yet but, however close they are to the corridors of power, there is still much uncertainty about what should go and what should remain. You are right to say that the RAF stands to lose much but, in concentrating solely on a current operation, we are failing to heed history yet again. Anyway, regarding the BBMF, the post-Christmas entertainment (well it would be if it were not so worrying) at MOD Main Building and elsewhere always takes the form of the annual spending round. I do recall, not long ago, always being told that “we’ve got an overspend on budget x, can you use some more textbooks or Audio visual kit and, if so, can you buy it before the end of March?” That hasn’t happened this year funny old thing. Everything is put on the table every year and that includes the Reds and the BBMF. What makes it rather different this year is that we really are in the dwang (for “we” read public sector) and so the chances of the RAFAT and or the BBMF being binned are/were likely to be greater than in the past.
You are not the first to predict that Trenchard’s 100 year experiment of an independent air force will be just that and you are not alone in that view. My own view (as a member of the RAF) is less pessimistic but I worry that the Land element has no grasp of real Air Power and, as it tends to use light blue just to ferry it from A to B, will find things a little worse when faced with an air-capable adversary.
Both the RAFAT and the BBMF are very big “shop windows” for the RAF and, considering the actual amount of money they cost to run, would perhaps be a cut too far. Still, not my decision and never will be as I’m on resettlement – just don’t mess with my imminent pension.
Toddington TedNormally it will get well publicised and will no doubt do a couple of final circuits etc before it lands for it’s last time….
I hope so
I wonder what “platform” is going to look after the long distance SAR stuff and submarine sniffing when these aircraft are all safely tucked up/rotting away (select option carefully) in various museums? Capability holiday? Don’t go long distance yachting for a while, that’s my view!
Note to self: get yerself over to Aeropark and have a look – some very nice airframes there by the sound and look of it!
Toddington TedOh yes, that is very nice!
Toddington TedThis snippet from the text in the BBC link posted by SeaFuryFan (many thanks for posting) caught my eye:
“It is hoped the plane could perform a fly-past at the opening of the 2012 Olympic Games in London.”
Why on earth should an historic British nuclear jet bomber be chosen for that?
Now don’t get me wrong, I believe the Vulcan to be an iconic military aircraft and part of the UK aviation historical “tapestry.” The fact that one has been returned to flight at all is a tremendous achievement and I won’t comment on the sustainability, management or difficulties of the project (suffice to say that I freely admit I haven’t put a penny towards it as steam locomotives get my spare money as does Flying Legends in July). However, even to my politically old-fashioned mind, the Vulcan is a totally inappropriate aircraft to open the 2012 Olympics – it stands for nuclear armageddon, the Cold War and giving Argentinians a headache. These standards don’t diminish the aircraft for one minute but they fly in the face of the Olympic Ideal (and we could debate how much of an ideal that is I suppose) and I just can’t imagine a more inappropriate way of opening the Games! The RAF Aerobatic Team is a somewhat different matter and it’s not unusual for nation’s military aerobatic teams to do such things at sporting events and such like. But the Vulcan? No, its backward looking whereas the Games are all about international togetherness, peace, harmony, youth and are forward looking. (The cynic in me is struggling at this point but I’m not a 20 year old athelete!). The Public really don’t love the Vulcan as much as some wishful thinkers believe and some previous posters have already alluded to this. If they did love it that much then there wouldn’t be the money issues that we read about. Suffice to say that the Public did love the Vulcan enough to save several of them from the scrapyard and care for them in museums; I guess we should be thankful for that.
Toddington TedTed
Whilst I do not entirely disagree with your views on the Vulcan’s appearance at the Olympic Games I think you must be wearing very rose-tinted spectacles to see the games in the gushingly “good” adjectives you ascribe to them. Give me the World Championship events any day. I doubt that all but a few would associate the Vulcan with nuclear war, etc. They might recall its participation in the Falklands War, with interest and pride, maybe. But I think for most it is like the Concorde, a big, beautiful, powerful beast.
And, by the way, I do hope it flies again this year, particularly having missed it last year at one of its “no-shows”, but having read this thread and others, I am doubtful.
JoeyR, you may wish to read my original post again, particularly my script in parenthesis where I thought I’d at least hinted at my cynical views of the Olympic ideal! However, like most international “happenings”, it does strive to have an association with international friendship and togetherness, much as the Football World Cup, the Commonwealth Games etc and I don’t think many people would argue with the concept. Some Brits in the Olympic audience (including myself I can say) would be very proud to see the Vulcan flying over London to open the Olympics but most of the international audience would not. Now Concorde is a different matter but, of course, that’s in the past now too. I was unfortunate not to join the RAF when the Vulcan was in service but I was fortunate to be based at Scampton when XH558 was still displayed by the RAF and also to see it flying on one of its tests over Lincolnshire. I, like many others here, hope it flies again in 2010 but doubts are there.
Toddington TedWhat get’s me is why are they using aircraft that are no longer being used by the RAF? Surely a defunct hawk or Tornado would be more suitable..
In an ideal world yes, we would be training our Engineer Officers to generate Typhoons during our practical training phase! The Jag is a twin engined strike aircraft so it does the job required quite well. When I first arrived at Cranwell we used Hunters as well as Jags (all the hunters found good homes I believe after retirement and some were flown out) and, for the purposes of the training done at DCAE Cranwell, the Jag is fine. At Cosford (where all aeronautical engineering for RAF ground tradesmen/women is carried out) a larger variety of airframes are used, including rotary winged aircraft and Tornados but, at the moment, the Jags are OK for what the training requires for Cranwell. That said, Hawks would also do the job very well I suppose. It will be very interesting to see what the Metrix Consortium comes up with if the £13 billion contract to deliver all UK military technical training at a single site (MOD St Athan) actually gets approved this year (or maybe not). Real airframes will have to be used as synthetic training and virtual walkrounds (good though they can be) doesn’t replicate noise, grease, cold, wet, and stubborn aircraft!
Toddington Tedhttp://www.yorkshireairmuseum.co.uk/events/events-2010.asp?id=1
According to the website (see link) 31 Jul & 1 Aug 10.
Toddington TedBest of the Best, Cranwell will make them better!!! Not me Guv.
Although Media Ops was my additional role, I can honestly say that this was nothing to do with me! (Good fun though!)
Toddington TedA white van gentleman and his partner recently won £56 million in the Eurolottery. He lives in Cirencester (well he did!). £56 million would buy sir a Eurofighter Typhoon with all the trimmings and only some small change would mean the Vulcan’s future would be assured. I don’t know the lucky chap but some aerophile must! By the way, ask for the Glos Warks Railway extension to Honeybourne please and bridge the Great Central Railway gap at Loughborough too while you’re at it. Small change from £56 million. (Yes, I’m jealous and yes, I’d have a good go at spending it – 50% to charity I might add.) Ask him to save XH558, its worth a try.
Toddington TedA white van gentleman and his partner recently won £56 million in the Eurolottery. He lives in Cirencester (well he did!). £56 million would buy sir a Eurofighter Typhoon with all the trimmings and only some small change would mean the Vulcan’s future would be assured. I don’t know the lucky chap but some aerophile must! By the way, ask for the Glos Warks Railway extension to Honeybourne please and bridge the Great Central Railway gap at Loughborough too while you’re at it. Small change from £56 million. (Yes, I’m jealous and yes, I’d have a good go at spending it – 50% to charity I might add.) Ask him to save XH558, its worth a try.
I wonder? I hope so! Now just for the railway projects please my good man, oh yes and hangars please for all the other Vulcans (and other aircraft) that have to sit outside in this rubbish UK climate!
Toddington TedWill she survive for posterity without a hangar to live in?
Toddington TedAndyG, I agree, its very easy to criticise and, let’s face it, a Vulcan is really something else in flying preservation (the RAF could not wait to get rid of them, so my older colleagues say, as they were so expensive to operate, albeit as a fleet, when compared with the replacement Tornados) not only in its iconic shape, its very presence and so on. However, having seen XH558 fly and having seen Vulcans flying in RAF service I’m not really bothered if it flies again or not (pure selfishness) but my view is not important and nether should it be. However, I don’t think the only thing missing from Joe Public’s life is a flying Vulcan so any team who was trying to keep this ac flying would always have great difficulty. Just Jane is a much less complex type but to be honest, I’d rather someone build a replica Stirling and fly that – you probably could with the money spent on XH558.
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