FirebexThe Government should sell the RAF to private enterprise and lease it back. I think Typhoons would look splendid in EasyJet Orange.
EASYRAF would be a superb new title and think of the advertising slogans to encourage recruitment !
I think they would look sexier and better in Virgin Atlantic adverts
FirebexTunisia. Egypt . Jordan ?. Who next ? Things not looking very promising for stability in the region at the moment.
From past performance both Syria and Iran have aspirations of expanding their influence.I think we could be in for some troubling times and the response of the European powers and as well as it goes without saying the US need to be very measured.
Some of the US and UK government comments seem to be teetering on the fence.In one respect they seem to support the governments and yet they are then saying the people should be allowed to have freedom of speech etc.We just have to be carefull that we are not heard to be saying one thing but then behind the scenes doing something else.There is a major power vacum in the area as Egypt historicaly has had a lot of support and aid from the eastern block I cant see for one minute Russia being in any sort of shape or being welcome to get involved with supporting any new regime. And China has been keen to get into bed with who ever at the moment having supplied a lot of assets and advice to countries like Iran.
FirebexTunisia. Egypt . Jordan ?. Who next ? Things not looking very promising for stability in the region at the moment.
From past performance both Syria and Iran have aspirations of expanding their influence.I think we could be in for some troubling times and the response of the European powers and as well as it goes without saying the US need to be very measured.
Some of the US and UK government comments seem to be teetering on the fence.In one respect they seem to support the governments and yet they are then saying the people should be allowed to have freedom of speech etc.We just have to be carefull that we are not heard to be saying one thing but then behind the scenes doing something else.There is a major power vacum in the area as Egypt historicaly has had a lot of support and aid from the eastern block I cant see for one minute Russia being in any sort of shape or being welcome to get involved with supporting any new regime. And China has been keen to get into bed with who ever at the moment having supplied a lot of assets and advice to countries like Iran.
FirebexThings looking good within a short space of time.Like the screen and stuff Tony would you be willing to see them go into a full aircraft project or at least perhaps allow them to be copied etc.?.
FirebexHi Jerry yes we understand that but we are hoping that we can get on board some of the guys who have started and stalled or given up and perhaps be able to gain access to the material they gathered for reference.
So far we have been fortunate to get hold of some limited stuff but also more importantly we have the generous offer of someone with extensive CAD experience and producing drawings from limited information and wreckage.
So we are open to hearing from anyone that has started and stalled or given up and willing to work towards the same end result a complete aircraft.Their efforts no matter how small etc could be key in the project.
Anyone who wants to discuss it further perhaps off forum in private please feel free to send me a PM for my personal contact details.
FirebexI think there are some valid points being made from both sides of the fence in this debate but I think we need to look at the wider picture.
We started with unrest and trouble in Tunisia now we are with Egypt both leaders have been in power al long time consider who else is in the pot with similar circumstances ?. Lybia for one example in the past the West has supported/interferred with all of them.
I dont think for one minute that all this is isolated (I do hope I am proved wrong) but I think there is an undercurrent going in in this part of the world and as some commentators have said in the past that the Middle east is one of the two most likely hot spots in the world to trigger a war. The other being the maniac in charge of North Korea.
I think the powers who support and encourage these countries and their governments must share the blame and work really hard to influence politicaly what happens in the next few days,weeks,and months. NOT Physicaly I think if any of the big players start sticking their fingers in on the ground or by sending in equipment or “Advisors”etc things will get very messy.
And almost anything can happen with the extremists building up ill feelings.
FirebexI think there are some valid points being made from both sides of the fence in this debate but I think we need to look at the wider picture.
We started with unrest and trouble in Tunisia now we are with Egypt both leaders have been in power al long time consider who else is in the pot with similar circumstances ?. Lybia for one example in the past the West has supported/interferred with all of them.
I dont think for one minute that all this is isolated (I do hope I am proved wrong) but I think there is an undercurrent going in in this part of the world and as some commentators have said in the past that the Middle east is one of the two most likely hot spots in the world to trigger a war. The other being the maniac in charge of North Korea.
I think the powers who support and encourage these countries and their governments must share the blame and work really hard to influence politicaly what happens in the next few days,weeks,and months. NOT Physicaly I think if any of the big players start sticking their fingers in on the ground or by sending in equipment or “Advisors”etc things will get very messy.
And almost anything can happen with the extremists building up ill feelings.
FirebexDefiantely a light cheap flexible ground attack aircraft; Soko Kraguj Sparrowhawk.The F16 could not catch them during the conflict a few years back.
For air defence definately The Lightning with upgraded range.
For tactical jobs The Buccaneer,
Then bring back the single and two seat hunter for mixed training and multi roles.
Basic training the Tiger Moth then the Harvard.
For naval aviation you could also use a Buccaneer variant on the new carriers.
Fairey Rotodyne for multi role equipment and troop deployment with its very short field ability and load performance.Shorts Skyvan for light transport role.
Shackleton for Maritime role.
Argosy,Brittania,Beverly for transport roles.
FirebexAs usual guys very informative and helpfull its a shame the German authorities decided to buldoze a lot of it.My Friend Ralph did tell me stories about access to underground tunnels and a hangaer area with full aircraft in it near Templehoff and that it went for miles but was part flooded and very unstable but we treated it a bit with a pinch of salt but after reading the links etc kindly posted it seems he was spot on. Its a shame that access to some of this stuff is still not possible as has been said there must be absolute tons of it out there still and I suspect that the old Eastern block is even more still full of it.But with what shall we call them the more business type individuals out there wanting “Fees” I think it sadly unlikely.Look what they wanted for that ex cold war “TU95”
FirebexArgosies
Argosies and Meteors at RAF Kemble on 8th Feb 1975. The Meteors were WL349 and WF991. Anyone know their ultimate fates, were they scrapped?
More Agosies at RAF Kemble this time on 8th Feb 1975.
Sorry I cant give you much info except I was working at Woodford all through the 1970’s and I recall we had four fly into us with their legs locked down.They were not in a happy shape and had been ferried from Kemble upon inspection and the access panels removed the fitters got almost drowned by the volume of water trapped inside the control surfaces and wings.They stayed with us for about 6 weeks and then they got a sproce up of the paint work and off they went to where I have no idea.There was a rumour at the time that they could possibly be going into civilian hands but they did not have anything other than their military serials.
Hope that helps.
Mike
FirebexRight guys the thing to remember about what we have said is from the start we are NOT attempting as much as it would be wonderfull to build a flying machine.That will be down to one day those with the financial will etc to do so. This will be a project to save a piece of history not to earn an income or make a profit (bad experience with RBL Spitfire sorry had to mention that one).
The info so far is helpfull but we need to find drawings and AP’s and detailed photo’s.
As has been said who would have thought you can scratch build a Spitfire from drawings photo’s and wreckage but we along with a few others have done it a good number of times.
Fine we aint going to build one from someones twisted bits from a dig.BUT with photo’s of those items and details of the structure and position of brackets etc a lot can be learnt and a lot of reverse engineering takes place. Drawings you can find help with basics,photographs of the same area help to clarify details etc and related parts not shown on the drawings.And part sof wreckage help to clarify things even further.AP’s contain a lot of detail and diagrams and photo’s give insight into the construction techniques used and the profiles are readily available.
If we can compile all this lot together then we are half way towards the feasibility of a standing whirlwind in a national collection.
We are willing to put in the effort and workshop space once the information is gathered and all we will then need is the costs of materials and the overheads such as heat and light etc.
FirebexThere seems to be a lot of interest in this posting with I understand some 10,000 visits to the posts.
I have had a chat with a few people who are very interested in a Whirlwind so lets test the water and see how many of you out there are willing to put some input in towards a static full size all aluminium whirlwind.
Shed Man god bless him put in a lot of commitment and effort so what he acheived shows there is a lot of information if you look hard enough.
So why dont we compile as much information,drawings,photo’s etc on the aircraft and at the end of a set period have a look and see if its viable.We are then willing if it is to put input into constructing at least a cockpit and front fuselgae hopefully leading onto a centre section and the rest of the fuselage.
So over to you ,WWW Who What and Where is the information we need and is Westlands amenable to helping such a project ??>
Mike
FirebexThanks for clarifying that we thought it was as heard a rumour that it was up for sale again and might have been interested but on closer look at the photo’s it isnt as BAYV had damage to its front end after a forced landing .
FirebexCurrent value of the airframe is circa £5k depending on documentation etc.But looking at som eof the photo’s the airframe has been robbed of spares and the cockpit is gutted so I suspect this has been used as a spares ship for other models of its breed therefore probably nearer £3,500 in value. when we could have recently purchased a true warbird for 12,000 euro’s but the owner could not provide export approval documentation.
FirebexNo its a Nord 1101 Noralpha not sure if the machine Peter Smith and I had many moons ago F-OTAN-6 G-BAYV last heard of near Bolton Lancashire in a transport yard.The photo looks promising as being it.It was at Manchester Barton for a few years then moved to Bygone times at Wigan before being sold to a local businessman
For further info the 1101 is the tricycle version developement of the ME108 built under license.The aircraft was used extensively by the French military amongst some other armed forces.
It actualy comprises about 1/3 structure compatible ME109 the whole rear fuselage if you take the spacers out realine the frames and reskin complete with tail you have a ME109 rear end about 25% of the wings also use the same basic components and a lot of comparable part numbers can be found within the original aircraft.I also believe but it was never fully confirmed that the main Undercarriage units are compatible albeit heavily modified and reversed in operation.
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