SintraAlso that is Mach 0.84 in the straight and level not a climb. If a Subsonic jet could realistically perform QRA then everybody would be using them in the role as it would entail significant cost savings.
Correct.
On top of what you and seahawk mentioned there´s also the problem of national borders. When you have a country 300 km´s wide (half of Europe, Portugal in some places is less than 200 km�s) either you have something capable of climbing really fast or that Boeing 777 wil be intercepted after it has overflown your country for the entire width of it.
Lets look at a map of Portugal, the main airforce base is Monte Real 120 km´s North of Lisbon, the Spanish border is less than 200 km´s east of Lisbon, a subsonic A-7P (what we used for a very long time for QRA and air policing) in order to intercept an Airbus/Boeing/LM Tristar/whatever, going from Madrid to Lisbon, would have to get airborne while the comercial aircraft would be hundreds of km´s inside the Spanish air space, that or intercept it AFTER it had overflown the capital city of my country and make quite a tail chase over the Ocean…
And this was a flight to Lisbon, a fligh to Faro in the extreme south of Portugal was basicaly impossible to intercept with the A-7´s (or even with the T-38´s). This problem is common to most countries in Europe.
Cheers
SintraNone is in need to keep something like 24/7 and it will show nothing except of cost or you have to stay for several years to learn from doing that and reach something from that constant supression.
Ask the British soldiers how they did control areas decades ago with some success. When clever managed you are just called in from the home forces to lent some firepower. It worked in Libya with plenty of modern weapons there and will work in Mali again.
Because in Libia and in Mali, COIN is done with a Trainer/light attack aircraft, right…
SintraYou are right generally speaking, but in this case the RBE2 AESA is clearly much better than the Captor insofar as the RBE2 PESA was already superior to the Captor. The only official document comparing both radars is the swiss evaluation report, which clearly & undoubtedly claims that the swiss judged the RBE2 PESA superior to the Captor. The huge capability leap from RBE2 PESA to RBE2 AESA can only increase that superiority by an order of magnitude.
Not true, what the Swiss evaluated were an RBE-2 PESA and a prototype of the RBE-2 AESA, and thats whats described in the Swiss documents. The two radars (the RBE-2 PESA and the AESA) are mentioned one single time each, the PESA in the 2008 Executive Sumary, and the AESA in the 2009 Executive Sumary. The Rafale was flown severall more sorties than the competition specificaly to test the AESA set, the results went right into the MET chart.
SintraJSR you being absurd, just drop it.
He usually is…
SintraApart from the initial phases of both Iraq and Afghanistan where TLAM, DDG’s, SSN’s, Aircraft Carriers, amphibious forces, air superiority fighters, stealth, heavy bombers, heavy armour, mechanised infantry, heavy artillery and basically every component of the all-arms battle was employed. Without those initial phases of course there being no COIN phase following on?.
Libia, Jugoslavia…
The reason why the chaps in A´stan, Iraq, Libia, even Mali went into unconventional warfare was because their conventional capabilities were blown to pieces… And that was not achieved by light infantry and OPV´s.
SintraWithout American involvement, Europeans won’t do anything heavier.
Juist on this point – you don’t need Air Warfare Destroyers or even fast jets for these kind of ops (Mali is landlocked).
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, every one and its dog fields a decent air force around the Med, the Persian Gulf, the Cape, the South American cone, the Malaka straights, etc, etc, etc…
The only reason why it didnt become obvious that surface ships are incredibly vulnerable to air action in the last three decades is because there´s one thing called the US Navy who doesnt look kindly to small/medium powers messing around commercial sea lanes. If every one and is dog is happy to rely on the goodwill of the Pentagon, well… i can only imagine that the US tax payer might not be too happy about that.
Some countries are focusing on this – e.g. Netherlands has adopted an expeditionary posturing for it’s ground forces and got rid of heavy armour.
Nope, Netherlands politicians have found a good excuse to slash defence expenditures, a very, very diferent scenario.
It was you who raised conventional warfighting capability. I actually did state that the non-US partners provide auxiliary services (e.g. ASW, escort etc).
I can only imagine how our American co-forumers might react to that! And the Pentagon will be thrilled to know that is allies are going into “auxiliary services”!
Something along “Thank god for the Japanese, the Koreans and the Aussies”?
A military force should be designed for it’s main threat levels – it’s why Latin American forces have gone from emphasis on external defence to COIN with only limited investment in external.
No they have not, the main South American armed forces, Brasil, Chile, Venezuela (Argentina went broke) are firmly sticking their guns to conventional warfare.
Hell, the entire Brasilian Defence white book is a study in South Atlantic control, if they have the money and the technology to actually build their nuclear strike subs is an open question, but will, and an active program, they have.
We’ve just had 12 years of Coalition based warfare and not one of these conflicts generally required large conventional forces including naval ones.
What?!
Massive western air armadas have pounded conventional equiped forces in Iraq, Jugoslavia and Libia.
Just a few months ago, every British citizen in this for�m was crying out loud for the lack of aircraft carriers in Libia (a bit of envy of the “vieux Charles” might have something to do with it :D).
SintraCAS in opposed airspace?. Simple answer. You need LO design, internal weapons carriage, cutting edge imaging sensor fit, high capability datalink and it would be advantageous to be short-field capable to maximise deployabilty options.
F-35B
And a price tag rivaling the one of the Raptor…
Seahawk got it, PGM´s launched from the ground.
Cheers
SintraThe Egyptian MiG-23ML using Atolls (IR and SARH) were not super fighters, but they had far better GCI support than the Saudis whom depended largely on the Mark I eyeball.
Pretty much irrelevant, the Lightning´s didnt have the range to fly into somewhere in wich there was support for the Egyptian Mig´s. This one is entirely dependent on pilot skill, the only clear advantage that the Mig has is range.
Sintra(that was after a huge european program, i dont remember the name).
Korrigan
SintraI thought the Hawk 200 had in built cannons?
A long time ago, when Sintra was a young chap there were plans to stick ADEN 25´s on the future Hawk 200. When the demonstrator was flown, it did have a pair of them, then the demonstrator crashed, the ADEN 25 also crashed and the production aircrafts ended up with one single ADEN 30 in an external pod under the centerline.
Cheers
Sintrathe Brits did say they wanted a cheaper to operate aircraft after the Libyan experience. Whether the Hawk 200 is that aircraft or not, ..
You are confusing the Italian Air Force Boss with the “Brits”.
SintraBoth are used in Afghanistan in the COIN-role by the RAF in supporting British ground troops in the most economical way right now?
Yes, the Reaper his.
How many Reapers and Hawks, when it is a cost effective use indeed and bought by a reasonable price?
COIN in a non contested air space?
Much less reapers than any alternative manned option, and by a bloody big margin… Just try to maintain a 24H circle on a determined airspace with manned combat aircraft. Amiga 500 got it in post 50.
SintraYou have nothing cost effective at hand for the training mission nor for the asymmetrical warfare.
Really?
And me thinking they had a bunch of new Hawk´s 128 and were operating armed Reapers… Go figure.
SintraI dont see how fleet of Typhoon and F35 could in anyway be seen in the seen in the same hi-lo mix that mff was meant to be i would suggest both aircraft are high value assets.
The RAF never operated with a HI-LO fleet.
Not sure why hawk 200 would be seen as such a poor asset am i missing something?
Yes, money, lack of it. The RAF is stuck with the Typhoon and a small number of DAVE´s B´s for the Carriers, this (small) fleet consumes the entire fast jet budget for the next decade and a half.
SintraIf I may additionally add; the Drop enhancements, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. Drops 1 and 2 have already been introduced and are in frontline operational service, elements include most of what has already been mentioned and much more in addition. As afore mentioned Drop 1 was introduced pre/during Operation Ellamy (Libyan campaign) in 2011. Drop 2, first flight in May 2012, was focused on SA in A/A, avionics updates including displays and controls, attack and identification, defensive aids and communication sub-systems as well as sustainability to the Tranche 1 fleet. Drop 3 has been funded and bought into by the Typhoon partner nations and is currently being flown by the industry. This includes MIDS, DASS and radar enhancements and upgrades and other enhancements, some of which are brought forward and are yet to be defined to the general public as is with Drop 4 and 5.
In addition to the Drops, there is a UK-led radar enhancement programme known as R2P (T2P on Tranche 2 units) and T2Q. There is also a phased DASS enhancement programme but details are obviously kept at a strict minimum. P1EA is complete and is due to enter service very soon; in short, enhancements are for MIDS, DASS, IFF Mode 5, upgrades to ASRAAM and IRS-T etc etc etc… P2EB is currently being test flown…
Source: Industry Report, Combat Aircraft Monthly, January ’13. Old news.
Between you and AERO, the two have covered almost everything, only ROVER and the active arrays in PRAETORIAN were missing from the (bleeding extensive) list.
Cheers
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