SintraSomething that the Brazilian Navy is not capable to do.
Oh really? Says who? You?! Based on what? How’s your Portuguese? There are Brasilian Navy officer’s writing at Alide an DB I am sure that would be more than happy to discuss their incapability with you…
SintraAs per the AV Week article, the Cost of F-35 (A) for the next two batches is 100.8 million and 98 million respectively.
Bring
Taking into account that by April 2013 the USAF was planning that by LRIP 7 the production costs for the airframe, avionics and integration (the LM bill) was 93,650 million US$ by unit, a 10% discount over LRIP 5 i have a few doubts that these are good news.
http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-130408-079.pdf
SintraBrazil isn’t the regional power, the USA are.
Oh yes, the USA have quite a sway in Brasil, Argentina, Venezuela, Bolivia, etc, dont they?
Cooperation means numbers big enough to make domestic projects sustainable.
With today´s Argentinean military budget the only “sustainable projects” would be dinghy boats
Come to think of it. Brazil should take the Falklands 😀
Well, by that kind of logic Burkina Faso should take the Falklands.
Cheers
SintraWith all the sabre rattling wrt the Falklands, and the aspiration of Brazil to become a regional power, how likely would it be that both countries cooperate to become the real power in South America to replace the USA?
Brazil is working on a few platforms that would completely twist the balance between Argentina and the UK in the Falklands affair:
KC390 transport that could be converted in air tanker to ease air operations and to make an air bridge.
R/P99 AEW, singint and maritime surveillance aircrafts that would be paramount to the decision makers.
And most importantly the development by Brazil to build it’s own nuclear submarine.Both navies have an aircraft carrier which enables them to keep currency in carrier ops (a thing that the UK doesn’t have for instance). With India launching their own carrier program. Why wouldn’t Brazil and Argentina as a junior partner to join with India on the programme. If you add 3-4 ships to the Indian program, it could become pretty affordable in the long run, and they could even manage to export a few of them to other countries like Singapore, Malaysia… on the cheap.
The same could be said of the nuclear subs. If Argentina was able to add, say 3 brazilian built nuclear subs, it would mean that the UK would have to multiply its investment to keep the falklands severalfold, which could become just too expensive for them in the short to medium term.
But now we come to the part that interest us: fighter aircrafts. I say both countries should make the bid to buy the EAU+Qatari Mirage 2000s, along with full ToT from Dassault. You could deliver about 24 to Argentina and 48 to Brazil. Embraer should be given the right to build spare parts, and the source codes to integrate weapons of several origins (russian, south african, israeli, and of course brazilian & argentinian).
Argentina: 24 Mirage 2000-5/9 + 12 Mirage F1M (upgraded to ASTRAC standard if possible).
Brazil: 48 Mirage 2000/9 + 12 Mirage 2000 B/C (why not upgrade them to the 9 standard).Training for Mirage 2000 & P/R 99 could be pooled, and carrier force and submarine force training could be pooled too which would lower the costs drastically.
Nic
Brasil doesnt need Argentina to became the “de facto” regional power, they already are “The REGIONAL Power”, they always were. Then there´s an history of distrust between the two countries that goes back severall centuries (the continuation of the old Portuguese/Castilian disputes with a tropical flavour).
SintraSome precisions:
Under this new Defence Budget Law , France plans to buy 11 Rafale in 2014, 11 Rafale in 2015 and 4 Rafale in 2016. Then the Ministry of Defence is confident enough to think that export will occupy the Rafale production line until 2019.
If this is not the case, as explained in the links below, France will continue to buy 11 Rafale per year between 2016 and 2018. (but will have to find new fundings or make cuts elsewhere)
Nothing new, this is what was done with the current Defence Budget Law 2008-2013, hoping a sale to Brazil.In any case, Dassault is guaranteed to produce 11 Rafale per year, at least.
There is no Rafale cut for the French army, only delayed deliveries in case of export success.http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-secteurs/air-defense/actu/0202924401829-recettes-exceptionnelles-et-exportation-du-rafale-des-paris-a-10-milliards-pour-boucler-le-budget-592244.php
http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2013/08/02/le-budget-de-l-armee-repose-sur-l-hypothese-d-une-vente-des-rafale-a-l-etranger_3456929_823448.html
Is it me or they are being incredibly optimistic? From 2016 to 2019 fourty jets for export?!
SintraMy friend what’s the current cost of the Typhoon and Strike Eagle? I believe it’s over 100 Million for both last I heard…….
The production cost of a LRIP 6 DAVE A almost doubles the cost of a T3A Typhoon and is identical to the last batch of F-22 Raptor´s.
SintraAre we sure they aren’t talking about LRIP 7 or 8 and it’s going to be an increase? they have the 29 …LRIP 9 is for around 60 US planes
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-08-01/lockheed-f-35-faces-significant-challenges-senators-say-1
The panel cut $80 million and six aircraft [to 36] from the Pentagon’s initial $562 million request to start buying hardware for 42 aircraft that would be purchased in fiscal 2015. The Pentagon is planning an increase from the 29 planes that were requested, and approved by the committee, for fiscal 2014.
Given the “significant challenges,” a “large increase in the production of aircraft” to 42 from 29 “is not yet warranted” the defense panel said in its report….
Yep, thats LRIP 7 and 8.
SintraHi All,
bring_it_on I know the F-35 is a Stealth Fighter but a curious design flaw If it can be called one your picture in post 271 prompts me to ask if the idea behind stealth is low observability why do the F-35 have an afterburner when I thought modern thinking was Supercruise negating the requirement of afterburner or is the picture deceiving me and it doesn’t have an afterburner and if it does as soon as it uses this wouldn’t this give it away ?Geoff.:D
The F-22, the PAK FA, the J-20, etc, have afterburners.
SintraI recently came across these threads were given a budget posters would build a navy http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?92752-%A335-Billion-Game and http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?106149-%A35b-Game.
I thought this might be a interesting scenario, so from the Argentine perspective come up with a force that could take and hold the Falklands with a target date around 2020-2025. The budget for a defense wide renewal of their capabilities is 65 billion dollars that can be split up any way you want for system procurement, operating and personal costs are not included in this. The money funding this is increases in mineral and oil sales. Also operate under the assumption that many countries and their defense industries are unscrupulous and that even allies of the UK will sell Argentina weapons (think of recent US policy choice by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton calling it the Malvinas) Personally my strategy would be to purchase as much “low end” equipment as possible like the Endurance LPD and large OPV’s and attempt a large scale distributed campaign with signifigant SSK and air cover.
65 Billion US$ for a decade?
6,5 billion a year.
Population, 2.932 chaps and chapies.
Divide those 6,5 billion by 2932 chaps and chapies, then go for votes, done.
I´ve just managed to save 58,5 billion US$ and a bloody war, had Galtieri done the same…
Blasted, just noticed that i wasnt the first to have this idea
Sintra[ATTACH=CONFIG]219352[/ATTACH]
Contest over, move on…
SintraAlso, what the critics often ignore or just forget to mention. Is the F-35 isn’t one aircraft but “THREE”. So, in the context of developing not one but three Stealthy Strike Fighters of such Highly Advanced Technology. The F-35 is in fact doing extremely well.
SintraLOL……………..Indian Navy got a sweet deal on the Carrier. You mean the one that doubled in price and years behind schedule!
Scooter
Be so kind to read “Figure 9” in page 27 of this very recent, very official, UK National Audit Office document:
http://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/10149-001-Carrier.full-report.pdf
Thanks
SintraAnd that I think is the crux of the problem. The first bunch that try to get away from a full custom airframe to a modular solution will be milking the market.
Airbus are probably in the best position to capitalise on this; they have the C-235, C-295 and A-400M, so can tailor the product to a number of airframes. I don’t think anyone else has the same wide range of airframes to offer.
You are describing the EADS CASA FITS, they have been selling them for more than a decade. It has been instaled in the C-212, the CN-235, the C-295 and upgraded P-3�s, there is (was?) also a proposed variant of the A400M equiped with it (proposed replacement for the Spanish Orion�s, dont know the status of the program).
Cheers
SintraYou haven’t seen the latest air international issue about the Rafale, which had such a huge article on everything Rafalesque that Eurofighter had to buy 4 infomercials in it. 😀
Nic
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL 😀
SintraIf you want to reduce operational costs for adventures like Afghanistan or Mali, people need to start thinking outside the box. Imagine you would use a Citation CJ3, equipped with a targeting pod, radar, operator console and hard points for Brimstone and Bombs. The airframe comes for roughly 8. Mill. $, say avionics go for another 10. Mill – so you could get 4-5 of those for one F-35, or a squadron in exchange for 3 F-35 or EF. Operating costs are 1800$ an hour, say 3500$ for the mil. spec version and based on mil. style calculations, this is less than 20% of a Tornado flight hour, or just over 10% of a Typhoon flight hour. In peace time it works as a VIP jet, for martime patrol, can lead SAR missions, pose as a target for interception training, can be used for arial photography, collecting air samples or whatever else.
And if you stick a bit of “AI” and a data link in there you have a UAV, true its going to cost more to acquire than having a pilot in it (the land station will be the most expensive bit), but the savings in training (UAV training is a simulator job) wil almost certainly be worth the extra initial expense, and you get persistence on top of it.
Thats exactly what the Italians did with the Piagio Hammerhead.
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