Note: neither a Gripen nor an F-16 fanboy here, just saw that elsewhere.

The guy who made that image just got the Viper numbers all wrong.
The empty weight of the Indian Viper is 10 tons (nice fuel fraction… not) and a payload of 10,2 tons might be achievable in Mars or the moon, but not in India (or any other part of planet earth).

@Hammer, what are the chances of the JF-17 / FC-1 getting a shot at this? Here are some positives to consider:

1. Real TOT with your own production line and permit to resell in South America (IMHO)
2. Integration of some of Brazil’s weapons are already done by Pakistan.
3. Integration of Brazilian systems would be relatively simple given the open architecture
4 Cheap. A small fraction of the price to both buy and operate
5. No politics of being tied to US equipment, EU fickleness or French underhand dealing
6. Very good financing options (IMHO best anywhere)
7. Sell Brazilian equipment in return. Pakistan could easily use a number of Brazilian systems
8. Open doors to new geo-politics
9. When integrated with Brazilian refuelers, EW, AEW and ISR assets, most of its disadvantages are assuaged.
10. Would allow a far larger AF for Brazil if Brazil chose to expand, at very little extra cost.

Would love to hear your thoughts on that.

I am not Hammer, but one thing i can bring to the discussion, the JF17/FC1 simply is not up to the technical specifications imposed by the FAB.
There are some very good reasons why the Russians submited the SU35 and not a Fulcrum or a derivate of the MKII Flanker, the same can be said of LM (an evolved Viper Block 60), of Dassault (an AESA equiped Rafale), SAAB (the NG and not the “C/D” that was proposed in the FX1), etc, etc.
If presented (it wont) the FC1 would be discarded right in the technical evaluation.

Cheers

Or do you think Saito is furious because it will take him longer to get the a/c?

Yep, that one. The FX2 contest is going the same way the original FX contest, or quoting Swerve, is becoming a “farce”.

Well I am curious what they said about the F-35, because: If it is added to the list then I think I know which a/c the FAB wants…! And it will not be any of the a/c on the current list.

I have yet to see an air force that turns down the F-35 in competition with 4.5 gen fighters.

Of course politics will decide but whereas the air force is probably “fine” with any of the 4.5 gens, I think they will lobby much harder if F-35 is on offer. Which means that it may win if politics dictates a US winner.

The article said that a “decaffeinated version” of the “costly” F-35A might be proposed for a new tender, but thats a Spanish site, not a Brasilian one, and those comments seems to be a “poetical liberty” from the author more than anything else.
If these news (the restart of the FX2 decision) are confirmed (and every Brasilian news agency are reporting them) its quite a blow to Dassault.
Lets wait and see.

Cheers

well BAe did make this….

but it would probably have to be enlarged significantly in order to allow for a decent size internal bay.. and a bigger nose for a radar.

That “thing” was roughly the size of a Tornado, if it was the cockpit size that gave you the impression that it was a small aircraft, its quite probable that the pole test model was representative of a twin seater.

Cheers

MIDS-LV is a collaborative program between France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the US.
For the rest we elect our own deputies and American laws are not enforced here.
The only ITAR components in MIDS – if any – are components that are available everywhere on the shelve on the open market which means that it worth nils.

France can use those components as much as she want…
… as long as she doesn’t use AMRAAMs! (because of the pressure leverage)

The French know it and the Americans know it.

There´s quite huge (400 pages +) MIDS-LVT program relatory in the RAND site, so before answering “on top of your head” is better to read it. The MIDS-LVT is a link16 modem, Link16 is a proprietary data link wich the onwer is the Pentagon, every single modem wich works in L16 is restricted by ITAR rules including the ones built by Euromids, its not just a question of the origin of the equipment, but software and hardware certification, proprietary protocols, etc, etc.
Euromids is completely dependent on the IPO for certification, design, maintenance software, basicaly, for everything (that is clearly described on EUROMIDS site).
Even the suport equipment (externals like the MIDS LVT(11) Voice Control Unit or the MIDS LVT(1) Host Interface Unit) are ITAR restricted.

The F3 standard is more advanced than the actual Typhoon (has been in advance since the very begining), is available for air and navy at no extra cost (what the F35 programme is trying to emulate badly), french industries need for survival will allow for true cooperation (and not submission like with US product), and since you know what you are buying ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/18/us_gov_mulls_eurofighter_sale_to_saudis/ ) there are no bad surprises at the end of the deal:dev2:.

You are aware that the hardware piece that got ITAR problems in the Typhoon Saudi sale, was the exactly same MIDS-LVT that the Dassault RAFALE uses, right?

Remember what happened in 1987-88? What happens when the Iranians get froggy and shut down the Strait of Hormuz? Stopping a percentage of Europe’s oil supply? Will you cry to the United Nations only to have Iran’s ally (China) veto any action?

Your Air Armada of milquetoast “air police” airplanes cannot break through Iran’s SAM defenses, find and destroy their C-802 anti-shipping missile batteries that are sinking Europe-bound oil tankers. Energy prices skyrocket. Europe’s economy flounders.

For christ sake, do you think that those UCAV´s programs are for what? Substitute the Hawks in the Red Arrows?

And yes, China is going to be tremendously happy to have the straights of Ormuz shutdown. By the amount of oil that China receives from that area, they might very well bomb the Iranians first.