I’d guess if we read some detaiuled histories of WWII aircraft, we’d find the same overruns we see today in new programs.

The V2 program is a classical example.

I think it is time for American yelling:
“Such kind of training exercise is totally not a big deal and entirely unrepresentative.”

“Show me the ROE !!! I bet it must be extremely unfair to the Eagles’ side!!!”

http://www.livemint.com/2009/08/10231950/8216We-will-shift-workload.html?pg=2

Bernhard Gerwert, CEO of military air systems, EADS Defence and Security:

“Looking at the official reports of the exercises that have been done by the four European air forces in exercises with other air forces, in all cases that I know in the last two years, the Eurofighter was the winner. All other aircraft were the losers. They beat everything.”

================================================== ================================================== ================================================== ==================================

Once, again, when Typhoon wins, the Typhoon’s supporters declare:
“This is because Typhoon is a much superior and formidable fighter compared with any fighter other than F-22A today.”
“The Eurofighter is the winner. All other aircraft are the losers.”

And when Typhoon lose, Typhoon’s supporters say:
“The RoE may be unfair for Typhoon.”
“The training results is not a big deal and entirely unrepresentative.”

How fair and justifying you are……..

Last time i´ve checked i am not American!

Eurofighter Typhoon trumps F-15 :dev2:

The 111 Squadron of the Spanish Air Force as well as the 493rd Squadron of the U.S. Air Force were deployed for training in Gando Air Base, Gran Canaria. The Spanish Squadron attended the training with a total of six Eurofighter Typhoons. The U.S. Air Force deployed F-15s.

In an interview on the exercise, Major Juan Balesta, the 41-year old Commander of the 111 Squadron stressed that a two-ship formation of Eurofighters involved in a dogfight simulation “against” the F-15s enjoyed full control of the engagement. The Typhoons managed to smash a formation of eight F-15s which had the role of the attacker with the first Eurofighter jet managing to “shoot down” four F-15 fighter jets. The second Eurofighter managed to disable three F-15 jets. Eventually the pilots were using the Eurofighter Typhoon to full capacity and taking advantage of its enormous capabilities. Trump that.

Gentleman, you can now begin name calling.

I would be astounded if a Typhoon could wipe out four Eagles in WVR, when those same F-15´s were using the JHCMS/9X combination…

ROE´s?

No, the new Rafale unit prices include VAT. Once you subtract 19.6%, the unit flyaway prices are €53-58MM, in line with previous estimates.

(This is a typical problem with Senat numbers: a few years back a lot of numbers were excluding VAT. For example, PA2 was said to cost €2.5B and FREMM €285MM, and these prices were then revised around 2008 to €3B and €500MM, leading to a certain amount of sticker shock in the media. Strangely, neither the MoD nor the Senat communicated this very well).

Back to Rafale: according to senate reports, programme cost growth was only 4.5% between 1996-2007 (after inflation). Though to be fair you should also include the fact that 8 aircraft were cut to fund the Rafale’s MLU (AESA radar, OSF-NG etc), which corresponds to another 2.5% cost increase. There may also be slight cost increases due to slower production rates for the next batch of 60 aircraft, but the details haven’t been communicated (probably because they depend on the Brazil & UAE orders).

On this particular message i was comparing the official costs of the latest batches of the Rafale and Typhoon for the original countries, that means that both are presented with VAT, independent of the document being from the French Senate, the Spanish MOD, the British NAO or the German Parlament (i dont have the Italian numbers).
And to be honest, i had the idea that the unit costs (“hors development”) presented in the “Projet de loi de finances pour 2006” did include VAT. Actually, i had the idea that all “Projet de loi de finances” included VAT, and the numbers presented without VAT were a contribution (used in a multitude of “fora”) by our forumer coleague TMor.
Could be wrong, maybe Tmor can shed a bit of light here?
If we are speaking of export, we have to exclude VAT from both aeroplanes.

Cheers

slight problem with that article is that, unless Typhoon had undergo some magical evolution in the last 48 hours, still today it costs more for less overall capabilities than the rafale…

And i would imagine that you had access to any official Eurofighter GMBH proposal and compare it with any official Dassault documentation…

IIRC there were reports of something like 24 being fired, with 23 successes.

It was 27 shots, with 26 direct hits.

a lot france’s independance hasnt been chosen for its self, because of past infringement of foreign IP,

Jack

Thats simply not true…